Solving Equality Problem in Complex Numbers

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter kelvin490
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Complex numbers
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equivalence of two complex expressions, x1 and x2, defined in terms of complex numbers A and B. Participants explore conditions under which these expressions can be considered equal, particularly focusing on the implications of setting A equal to the conjugate of B and vice versa. The scope includes theoretical reasoning about complex numbers and their properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that for x1 and x2 to be equivalent, A must equal B* and B must equal A*, leading to a direct equivalence of the two expressions.
  • Others argue that if the condition (A-B*)eiωt=(A*-B)e-iωt holds, it leads to the equation ei2ωt=(A*-B)/(A-B*), raising questions about the conditions under which this can be satisfied.
  • A participant highlights that the right side of the equation being a constant implies that the left side must also be constant, suggesting that this may only hold under specific conditions, such as ω=0.
  • Another participant notes that if A=B* and B=A*, the resulting expression leads to an undefined form (0/0), questioning the implications of this situation.
  • One participant introduces the concept of linear independence, suggesting that the coefficients of the expressions must be equal for equivalence, and reiterates that the left-hand side being time-dependent contradicts the right-hand side being constant unless A and B are conjugates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions necessary for x1 and x2 to be equivalent. While some agree on the necessity of A and B being conjugates, others challenge this by exploring alternative conditions and implications, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the assumptions made regarding the nature of A and B, particularly in relation to their conjugates and the implications of time dependence in the equations presented.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying complex numbers, particularly in the context of equivalence relations and properties of complex functions in mathematical physics or engineering.

kelvin490
Gold Member
Messages
227
Reaction score
3
Suppose we have two equation x1=Aeiωt + Be-iωt and x2=A*e-iωt + B*eiωt . Where A and B are complex number and A* B* are their conjugate correspondingly.

Now if we want to make x1 and x2 exactly equivalent all the time, one way to do it is to have A=B* and B=A* so that x1 and x2 are equivalent. However, if we don't do it by this approach but instead set (A-B*)eiωt=(A*-B)e-iωt, then we have ei2ωt=(A*-B)/(A-B*). I would like to ask if the A and B chosen can satisfy this criteria (even A≠B* and B≠A*), can we still say that x1 ≡ x2 ?

Another thing trouble me is if A=B* and B=A* , then ei2ωt=(A*-B)/(A-B*)=0/0 which is undefined. What causes this problem?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
kelvin490 said:
Suppose we have two equation x1=Aeiωt + Be-iωt and x2=A*e-iωt + B*eiωt . Where A and B are complex number and A* B* are their conjugate correspondingly.

Now if we want to make x1 and x2 exactly equivalent all the time, one way to do it is to have A=B* and B=A* so that x1 and x2 are equivalent. However, if we don't do it by this approach but instead set (A-B*)eiωt=(A*-B)e-iωt, then we have ei2ωt=(A*-B)/(A-B*). I would like to ask if the A and B chosen can satisfy this criteria (even A≠B* and B≠A*), can we still say that x1 ≡ x2 ?
What you are doing is saying that if [itex]Ae^{i\omega t}+ Be^{-i\omega t}= A^*e^{-i\omega t}+ B^*e^{-i\omega t}[/itex] then we must have [itex]e^{2i\omega t}= \frac{A^*- B}{A- B^*}[/itex]. However, the right side of that equation is a constant, independent of t. In order for that to be true, the left side must also be a constant- so what you are doing is equivalent to assuming that [itex]\omega= 0[/itex], a very restrictive condition!

Another thing trouble me is if A=B* and B=A* , then ei2ωt=(A*-B)/(A-B*)=0/0 which is undefined. What causes this problem?
If [itex]A= B^*[/itex] then [itex]B[/itex] must equal [itex]A^*[/itex]- that is not a distinct condition. And in that case you are saying [itex]x_1= Ae^{i\omega t}+ A*e^{-i\omega t}[/itex] and [itex]x_2= A*e^{-i\omega t}+ Ae^{i\omega t}[/itex], that is, that [itex]x_1= x_2[/itex] for all t. That is exactly what you said you wanted. There is no "problem". If you have two identical equation, say "px= qy" and "px= qy" and subtract them you get 0x= 0y, of course. It would make no sense to try to "solve for y" in that case, you would just get 0/0 as happens here.
 
The two orignal expressions are complex conjugates of each other. Therefore to be equal, the imaginary part must be 0.
 
I think the concept of linear independence can help. Since e-iωt and eiωt are two linearly independent variables, the coefficient of x1 and x2 must be equal so that x1 and x2 are equivalent.

Also from (A-B*)ei2ωt=(A*-B) we can see that the left hand side is a time dependent function (let's say t is time) and the other side is a constant. The only way to make both sides equal all the time is to have A=B* and B=A*.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K