Solving Equation with Roots (u/p)+(p/u), (p/q)+(q/p), (u/q)+(q/u)

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves finding a general solution for a cubic equation with roots expressed in terms of the original roots of another cubic equation. The original equation is given as x^3 + ax + b = 0, with roots u, p, and q. The new roots are defined as (u/p)+(p/u), (p/q)+(q/p), and (u/q)+(q/u).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss expanding the product of factors corresponding to the new roots and applying the relationships from the original cubic equation. There is mention of expressing new roots in terms of a, b, and u, and concerns about the complexity of the resulting algebra.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on expanding the equation and using the relationships between the roots and coefficients. Others express frustration with the algebraic complexity and question whether a simpler method exists, indicating a lack of consensus on an elegant solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may be intentionally complex, with one expressing that it seems to be difficult for the sake of difficulty. There is also a reference to the original equations relating the roots to the coefficients, which may influence the approach taken.

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Homework Statement



The equation:

x^3 + ax + b = 0

has 3 roots, u, p and q.

Give the general solution for for an equation with roots (u/p)+(p/u), (p/q)+(q/p) and (u/q)+(q/u)

Homework Equations



u + p + q = 0

upq = -b

up + uq + pq = a

If you can solve it you probably already knew those.


The Attempt at a Solution



Well I've just done lots of fiddling with algebra and got a pretty nasty looking solution, and I'm not even sure if it's right. What I was trying to do was express one of the new roots in terms of a, b and u, and then plug back into the original equation for the new equation. I've got a pretty rough looking solution but I wanted to see if anyone could find a elegant way of solving this or if it is just lots of scruffy algebra. Thanks.
 
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You'll need to expand out

[x-((u/p)+(p/u))][x-((p/q)+(q/p))][x-((u/q)+(q/u))]=0

and then use the conditions given in your relevant equations. I don't think there is a simpler way.

EDIT: I think you can say in general you will have Ax^3+Bx^2+Cx+D=0

with the roots required, the sum will be -B/A and then you can just simplify the sum of the roots and get B/A and so on.
 
rock.freak667 said:
You'll need to expand out

[x-((u/p)+(p/u))][x-((p/q)+(q/p))][x-((u/q)+(q/u))]=0

and then use the conditions given in your relevant equations. I don't think there is a simpler way.

Ah, that's what I was afraid of. Oh well, thanks. I guess it is just an ugly problem.
 
jbar18 said:
Ah, that's what I was afraid of. Oh well, thanks. I guess it is just an ugly problem.

Re-read my edit and see if that will help, I did not check to see if it will but it should work the same way.
 
rock.freak667 said:
EDIT: I think you can say in general you will have Ax^3+Bx^2+Cx+D=0

with the roots required, the sum will be -B/A and then you can just simplify the sum of the roots and get B/A and so on.

Yeah this was the first method I tried. Unfortunately I got stuck with the algebra and couldn't simplify it down any further, it was a very long horrid fraction. It's fine really though, doing the question wasn't really my interest, I just wanted to know if there was a shortcut through this problem really. Now it seems apparent that this question is just hard for the sake of being hard.
 

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