Solving for integral curves- how to account for changing charts?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of integral curves in the context of vector fields and changing coordinate charts. Participants explore the implications of parameterizing curves and the necessity of adjusting coordinates when points on the curve are represented in different charts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the vector field ##X## should be considered as restricted to the curve ##\gamma##, suggesting that the coordinates of points on the curve may not belong to a single chart.
  • Another participant asserts that the process begins with the vector field ##X## and that the goal is to find the curve ##\gamma## such that ##X(\gamma(t))=\gamma'(t)## for all ##t##, indicating that the solution is valid in any coordinate system.
  • A later reply seeks clarification on the notation ##X(\gamma(t))##, proposing that it may refer to coordinates given by ##X((x^i\circ\gamma)(t))## to ensure chart independence.
  • One participant explains that a vector field assigns a tangent vector to each point in the manifold, clarifying the meaning of ##X(\gamma(t))## as the tangent vector assigned to the point ##\gamma(t)##.
  • Another participant discusses the relationship between coordinate systems at different points in the manifold, suggesting that the coordinates of the vector field will change depending on the chart used at each point.
  • They propose that the integral curve can be represented in different coordinate systems depending on the points along the curve, leading to local solutions that can be "stitched together."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of the vector field and the implications of changing coordinate charts. There is no consensus on whether the vector field should be restricted to the curve or how to best represent the integral curves across different charts.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the image of the curve may not lie within a single coordinate chart, which raises questions about the representation of points in different coordinate systems.

Shirish
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[Ref. 'Core Principles of Special and General Relativity by Luscombe]

Let ##\gamma:\mathbb{R}\supset I\to M## be a curve that we'll parameterize using ##t##, i.e. ##\gamma(t)\in M##. It's stated that:
If ##\gamma(t)## has coordinates ##x^i(t)## and [a vector field] ##X## has components ##X^i##, finding the integral curve associated with ##X## reduces to solving a set of coupled first-order differential equations, $$\frac{d}{dt}x^i=X^i(x^1(t),\ldots,x^n(t))$$
Immediately after there's an example: if ##X=x\partial_x+y\partial_y##, then ##dx/dt=x## and ##dy/dt=y##, which gives the integral curve passing through ##(a,b)## at ##t=0## as ##\gamma(t)=(ae^t,be^t)##.

  1. Now from the context, provided we're talking about only one curve ##\gamma##, shouldn't ##X## actually be the restriction of the vector field to the curve ##\gamma##, rather than the vector field itself?
  2. Referring to the phrase "If ##\gamma(t)## has coordinates ##x^i(t)##...", I'm guessing it's unlikely that all the points on the curve belong to a single chart. So how can we claim only one coordinate system ##x^i## to represent the coordinates of all the points on the curve? Won't we have to adjust the coordinates according to the chart?

    e.g. if some ##p,p'\in\gamma(I)## are covered by different charts, and if the coordinates of ##p## are ##x^i##, won't the coordinates of ##p'## have to be characterized by an entirely different coordinate system (e.g. some ##y^i##)?
 
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1. No. You're starting with the vector field ##X## and solving for ##\gamma.## You don't have a curve to begin with.

2. Given ##X##, you're looking for a curve ##\gamma## with ##X(\gamma(t))=\gamma'(t)## for all ##t##. A solution to this equation will satisfy your quoted equation in every coordinate system. You're right that in general the image of the curve won't lie inside of a single coordinate chart.
 
Infrared said:
1. No. You're starting with the vector field ##X## and solving for ##\gamma.## You don't have a curve to begin with.

2. Given ##X##, you're looking for a curve ##\gamma## with ##X(\gamma(t))=\gamma'(t)## for all ##t##. A solution to this equation will satisfy your quoted equation in every coordinate system. You're right that in general the image of the curve won't lie inside of a single coordinate chart.
What do you mean by ##X(\gamma(t))##? Is it that the coordinates are given by ##X((x^i\circ\gamma)(t))##? That's the only way I can think of that'll make it chart independent.
 
A vector field assigns to each ##x\in M## a tangent vector in ##T_xM##. By ##X(\gamma(t))##, I mean the tangent vector that ##X## assigns to the point ##\gamma(t)##.
 
Infrared said:
A vector field assigns to each ##x\in M## a tangent vector in ##T_xM##. By ##X(\gamma(t))##, I mean the tangent vector that ##X## assigns to the point ##\gamma(t)##.
Yes, that's clear to me so far.

In regards to the example in the OP, consider any point ##p_0\in M##. So can I say that whatever coordinate system ##\{x, y\}## is used at ##p_0## (in accordance with whatever chart covers it), the coordinates of ##X_{p_0}## in the corresponding coordinate basis (corresponding to the coordinate system) will be ##x,y##?

Essentially this means that if I use some other coordinate system ##\{u,v\}## at some other point ##p_1##, then the coordinates of ##X_{p_1}## will now be ##u,v##.

And what this implies for the integral curve that we calculate, i.e. ##(ae^t,be^t)##, is that if ##\gamma(t_0)=p_0## and ##\gamma(t_1)=p_1##, then ##(ae^{t_0},be^{t_0})## are the coordinates of the integral curve at ##p_0## in the coordinate basis ##(x,y)##, while ##(ae^{t_1},be^{t_1})## are the coordinates of the integral curve at ##p_1## in the coordinate basis ##(u,v)##. In essence, we're coming up with local solutions to the curve and "stitching them together".

Does that sound correct so far?
 

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