Solving Lemon Battery Issues: Cu/Zn, Voltage, Current

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the operation and optimization of a lemon battery, specifically focusing on the materials used for electrodes, voltage output, current limitations, and the role of a salt bridge in electrochemical cells. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of this simple electrochemical system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant reports a voltage of 0.954 volts from their lemon battery and questions why it is close to the expected 1.1 V despite non-standard conditions for copper and zinc ions.
  • There is a request for clarification on the actual half reactions occurring in the lemon battery.
  • Participants discuss potential methods to increase current output, with one suggesting that current is likely limited by electrode size and lemon resistivity.
  • Another participant asserts that it is possible to connect multiple electrodes in series within the same lemon to achieve higher voltage.
  • Concerns are raised about the necessity of a salt bridge in electrochemical cells, with one participant arguing that the lemon itself acts as a salt bridge.
  • A counterpoint is made regarding the function of a salt bridge, emphasizing its role in separating anode and cathode environments, and questioning whether the lemon fulfills this role.
  • Another participant adds that a salt bridge can be present in the same solution and serves to prevent shorting, similar to conventional electrolytic capacitors.
  • There is a mention of "leakage" of current in all batteries, which may relate to the performance of the lemon battery.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of the salt bridge and the feasibility of connecting multiple electrodes in series within a single lemon. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity and function of a salt bridge in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the exact half reactions occurring in the lemon battery or the implications of using a lemon as a salt bridge. There are also varying assumptions about the limitations of current output and the configuration of electrodes.

gfisanick
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I am demoing a lemon battery made with a copper sheet electrode and a galvanized nail for the Zn electrode. I get a voltage of 0.954 volts from the battery which slowly decays over time.
Why is my voltage this close to the 1.1 V expected value if my concentrations of copper and zinc ions are so far from standard conditions?
Does anyone know the actual half reactions at work?
How can I increase the current from the cell other than placing several lemons in series? In other words, what is likely to be limiting the current?
Why can't I hook up multiple electrodes in series in the same lemon and get a higher voltage?
Why do texts make it seem like a salt bridge is mandatory in electrchemical cells when this example proves it clearly is not?
 
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gfisanick said:
I am demoing a lemon battery made with a copper sheet electrode and a galvanized nail for the Zn electrode. I get a voltage of 0.954 volts from the battery which slowly decays over time.
Why is my voltage this close to the 1.1 V expected value if my concentrations of copper and zinc ions are so far from standard conditions?
Does anyone know the actual half reactions at work?
How can I increase the current from the cell other than placing several lemons in series?In other words, what is likely to be limiting the current?
Current will be limited by the size of the electrodes and the resistivity of the lemon.

Why can't I hook up multiple electrodes in series in the same lemon and get a higher voltage?
You can do just that.

Why do texts make it seem like a salt bridge is mandatory in electrchemical cells when this example proves it clearly is not?
The lemon is the salt bridge.
 
I thought the salt bridge was used to separate the anode and cathode so they could be in different chemical environments. In that case the lemon is not a salt bridge since the anode and cathode are in the SAME solution.
 
a salt bridge is used to separate the cathode and anode, but it can be in the same solution as well as different solutions also acting as a spacer between the two to keep them from shorting out like in conventional electrolytic capicitors
all batteries have "leakage" of current
 
Last edited:

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