Solving Permutations with Multiple Sets

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves computing the expression for permutations σ, τ, and μ, specifically focusing on the permutation σ defined as σ = (1 2 3 4 5 6; 3 1 4 5 6 2). Participants are exploring the cycle decomposition of σ and its implications for determining the order of the permutation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the process of finding the cycle decomposition of the permutation σ and question how many times σ must be applied to return to the identity permutation. There are attempts to compute powers of σ and verify the results, with some participants expressing confusion about their calculations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing their attempts to compute powers of σ and seeking clarification on their results. Some guidance has been provided regarding the cycle structure of σ, but there is no explicit consensus on the final answer yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information they can reference or the methods they can use. There is an emphasis on understanding the cycle notation and the implications for the order of the permutation.

taylor81792
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Homework Statement


The problem says to compute the expression shown for the permutations σ, τ, and μ.
My problem in particular says to compute |{σ}| for σ= (1 2 3 4 5 6; 3 1 4 5 6 2)


The Attempt at a Solution


My attempt to solve this problem was by first trying to change σ into σ^2. And then I tried continuing to double σ until I got the identity, but at that rate it would take forever.
 
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Do you know how to find the cycle decomposition of a permutation?
 
I don't think my professor ever taught me that
 
Well, here's a crash course. \sigma maps 1 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 5, 5 to 6, 6 to 2, and 2 to 1. We say that \sigma has a cycle consisting of these elements, and we write it as (1 3 4 5 6 2). And we have accounted for all of the elements, so in fact \sigma consists of just this cycle.

If the above makes sense to you, can you see how many times you would have to apply \sigma in order to obtain the identity?
 
So i understood that and I continued doing that. I then got (1 2 3 4 5 6; 1 4 5 6 2 3). After doing it a couple more times, I ended up getting (1 2 3 4 5 6; 1 3 4 5 6 2) again. I don't know if I did something wrong.
 
jbunniii said:
Well, here's a crash course. \sigma maps 1 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 5, 5 to 6, 6 to 2, and 2 to 1. We say that \sigma has a cycle consisting of these elements, and we write it as (1 3 4 5 6 2). And we have accounted for all of the elements, so in fact \sigma consists of just this cycle.

If the above makes sense to you, can you see how many times you would have to apply \sigma in order to obtain the identity?

Or would you have to keep going back to the original σ for each new cycle?
 
taylor81792 said:
So i understood that and I continued doing that. I then got (1 2 3 4 5 6; 1 4 5 6 2 3).

This doesn't look right. Can you explain how you got that?
 
If you want to write out the powers of \sigma, you can do it as follows, for example to calculate \sigma^2:

\sigma maps 1 to 3 and 3 to 4. Therefore \sigma^2 maps 1 to 4.
\sigma maps 2 to 1 and 1 to 3. Therefore \sigma^2 maps 2 to 3.
\sigma maps 3 to 4 and 4 to 5. Therefore \sigma^2 maps 3 to 5.
\sigma maps 4 to 5 and 5 to 6. Therefore \sigma^2 maps 4 to 6.
\sigma maps 5 to 6 and 6 to 2. Therefore \sigma^2 maps 5 to 2.
\sigma maps 6 to 2 and 2 to 1. Therefore \sigma^2 maps 6 to 1.

This means that \sigma^2 = (1 2 3 4 5 6 ; 4 3 5 6 2 1).
 
okay i did that and then I got (1 2 3 4 5 6; 6 5 2 1 3 4), then ( 1 2 3 4 5 6; 4 3 5 6 2 1). does this look right?
 
  • #10
I just tried doing σ^3 and I got the inverse because
1 maps to 4, 4 to 6 and 6 to 1
2 to 3, 3 to 5, and 5 to 2.
3 to 5, 5 to 2, and 2 to 3.

Does this look correct now?
 
  • #11
Okay, i redid it a final time and I believe the answer is 6
 
  • #12
taylor81792 said:
I just tried doing σ^3 and I got the inverse because
1 maps to 4, 4 to 6 and 6 to 1
2 to 3, 3 to 5, and 5 to 2.
3 to 5, 5 to 2, and 2 to 3.

Does this look correct now?

No, here's what I get:

1 to 3 to 4 to 5
2 to 1 to 3 to 4
3 to 4 to 5 to 6
4 to 5 to 6 to 2
5 to 6 to 2 to 1
6 to 2 to 1 to 3

so \sigma^3 = (1 2 3 4 5 6 ; 5 4 6 2 1 3).
 
  • #13
taylor81792 said:
Okay, i redid it a final time and I believe the answer is 6

Yes, that's correct.
 
  • #14
in general, if

σ = (a1 a2...ak1)(b1 b2...bk2)...(t1 t2...tkr)

where each cycle is disjoint from all the others,

then |σ| = lcm(k1,k2,...,kr)

for example, the order of σ =

(1 2 3 4 5)
(2 1 4 5 3) = (1 2)(3 4 5) is lcm(2,3) = 6.

also, if σ is a n-cycle that maps aj→aj+1 (mod n),

then σk maps aj→aj+k (mod n),

that is, instead of "jumping to the next number in the cycle (circle)", we skip to the k-th following number" ("looping back around when necessary").
 

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