Solving Simple Limits Questions with No Calculator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the limit of the function 4 / (x² + 2x + 1) as x approaches -1. Participants explore the implications of approaching the limit from both sides and the concept of limits involving division by zero, while also addressing the constraints of not using a calculator.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that plugging in values close to -1 results in 4/0, leading to the conclusion that the limit is infinity.
  • Another participant proposes rewriting the limit in terms of ε to simplify the evaluation.
  • Some participants clarify that while the expression approaches 4/0, the limit does not exist, and it is conventionally noted that limits can be infinite but not equal to infinity.
  • There is a contention regarding the interpretation of the limit, with one participant stating that the limit does not exist and emphasizing the need to consider one-sided limits, which yield different results (positive and negative infinity).
  • Another participant challenges the assertion that the limit does not exist, arguing that the square in the denominator ensures the limit approaches positive infinity regardless of the direction of approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the limit exists and how to interpret the results of approaching from either side. There is no consensus on the final interpretation of the limit, highlighting the complexity of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the distinction between undefined expressions and limits that approach infinity. The discussion also touches on the upcoming topic of indeterminate forms, indicating a broader context of learning in calculus.

gamma-ray-burst
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hey hi.

i'm just starting differentials and now we are seeing the limits.
i have a question.

there is one example that goes like this :

lim 4 / (x²+2x+1)
x--> -1

well with simple calculations using -1(-) and -1(+), i know that the answer is infinity.
plus, if i trace the graph, there's an asymptote at -1.
but I'm not supposed to use a calculator.
well at the exam we can't have one.

so i do it by hand.
when i plug, let's say, -1.000001 and -0.999999, it gives me 4/0 for both.
can i say that it's infinity, or would it have to be 4/0(+)?

i feel that it's really easy, yet I'm stuck :(

also, if i get something like (1(+))², does it stays 1(+) or does it becomes like 1.0000000002?

thanks!
 
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Hi gamma-ray-burst! :smile:
gamma-ray-burst said:
lim 4 / (x²+2x+1)
x--> -1

well with simple calculations using -1(-) and -1(+), i know that the answer is infinity.
plus, if i trace the graph, there's an asymptote at -1.
but I'm not supposed to use a calculator.
well at the exam we can't have one.

so i do it by hand …

hmm … rather long-winded :redface:

rewrite it as a limε -> 0, where x = -1 + ε. :wink:
 
In this case, you can "plug in" x = -1. Then you find that you get something of the form 4 / 0. Therefore, the limit does not exist; we sometimes write
[tex]\lim_{x \to -1} \frac{4}{x^2 + 2x + 1} = \infty[/tex]
to indicate this ([itex]\infty[/itex] being the symbol for infinity -- note that this is like a convention to say that the limit does not exist, it does not mean that the limit is "equal to infinity" or something like that).

In principle, this method works: when you get something of the form number/0 or infinity/number (where in both cases, number is not equal to 0), the limit does not exist. Again, I should point out that "of the form" is a necessary addition here: technically you are not allowed to write "4/0", for example, that is an undefined expression. Only when you get something like 0/0 or infinity/infinity you really need to be careful and apply another method.
 
Having noted that, at x= -1, the numerator is 4 and the denominator is 0, your answer should be that the limit does not exist.

Strictly speaking,
[tex]\lim_{x\to -1} \frac{4}{x^2+ 2x+ 1}= \infty[/tex]
is not correct because
[tex]\lim_{x\to -1^+} \frac{4}{x^2+ 2x+ 1}= \infty[/tex]
while
[tex]\lim_{x\to -1^-} \frac{4}{x^2+ 2x+ 1}= -\infty[/tex]

Best answer: "The limit does not exist."
 
Oh wow you guys are amazing.
Thanks a lot for all the answers!
Yet again, I was complicating things for nothing.
I know that next week we will see indeterminations of forms like "0/0" and "inf/inf" and things like that and I was afraid that "#/0" was some special case where I had to do other things.

So thanks again!
 
HallsofIvy said:
Having noted that, at x= -1, the numerator is 4 and the denominator is 0, your answer should be that the limit does not exist.

Strictly speaking,
[tex]\lim_{x\to -1} \frac{4}{x^2+ 2x+ 1}= \infty[/tex]
is not correct because
[tex]\lim_{x\to -1^+} \frac{4}{x^2+ 2x+ 1}= \infty[/tex]
while
[tex]\lim_{x\to -1^-} \frac{4}{x^2+ 2x+ 1}= -\infty[/tex]

Best answer: "The limit does not exist."

This is untrue.

[tex]{x^2+ 2x+ 1}[/tex] = [tex](x+1)^2.[/tex]

Whatever side you approach, the square will make it positive, thus positive infinity.
 

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