Solving $x$ in Terms of $a$: $x^4-3ax^3+3a^3x+a^4=0$

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter anemone
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Terms
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the polynomial equation $x^4-3ax^3+3a^3x+a^4=0$ for $x$ in terms of $a$. Participants explore various approaches and solutions, sharing their thoughts and challenges related to the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Dan, expresses enthusiasm for the challenge posed by the problem.
  • Another participant, kaliprasad, presents a solution but later questions the validity of their result when compared to another approach.
  • Kaliprasad provides a specific example involving the quadratic equation $x^2 - 2ax - a^2 = 0$ to illustrate their point, leading to a discussion about the correctness of the derived expressions.
  • There is a mention of a product of factors $(x^2-2ax - a^2)(x^2-ax - a^2)$ that is claimed to yield the original polynomial, but the correctness of this factorization is contested.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the contributions of another participant, topsquark, and apologizes for previously dismissing a solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the solutions presented. There are competing views regarding the validity of certain expressions and factorization methods, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about specific calculations and the implications of their proposed solutions. The discussion highlights the complexity of the polynomial and the challenges in deriving a clear solution.

anemone
Gold Member
MHB
POTW Director
Messages
3,851
Reaction score
115
Solve for $x$ in terms of $a$ in the equation $x^4-3ax^3+3a^3x+a^4=0$.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Great. Now I'm not getting any sleep tonight.

-Dan

That wasn't as bad as I thought. A little guess work and serendipity go a long way.

Let's start with the (almost preposterous) idea that it can be factored:
$$x^4 - 3ax^3 + 3a^3x + a^4 = (x^2 + bx + c)(x^2 + dx + e)$$

Expanding out gives use the equations:
$$b + d = -3a$$
$$c^2 + bd + e^2 = 0$$
$$be + cd = 3a^3$$
$$ce = a^4$$

Let's try $$c = e = a^2$$.

Then we get, from the first and third equations that $$b + d = -3a$$ and $$b + d = 3a$$. No good.

Let's try again. Let $$c = e = -a^2$$.

Then the first and third equations both read $$b + d = -3a$$. So we now have $$d = -3a - b$$.This means our last equation (the second one) now gives
$$b^2 + 3ab + 2a^2 = (b + 2a)(b + a) = 0$$

So we have that b = -2a or b = -a.

Both of them give the same answer, so let's put b = -2a.

Tallying up:
$$b = -2a$$
$$c = -a^2$$
$$d = -a$$
$$e = -a^2$$.

Thus (whew!)
$$x^4 - 3ax^3 + 3a^3x + a^4 = (x^2 - 2ax - a^2)(x^2 - ax - a^2) = 0$$

This solves down to the following four solutions:
$$x = a ( 1 \pm \sqrt{2} )$$
$$x = \frac{a}{2} ( 1 \pm \sqrt{5} )$$
-Dan
 
Last edited by a moderator:
topsquark said:
Great. Now I'm not getting any sleep tonight.

-Dan

Hi Dan,

I take this as you like this challenge problem and I wish you the best of luck to crack it it no time! (Sun)
 
anemone said:
Hi Dan,

I take this as you like this challenge problem and I wish you the best of luck to crack it it no time! (Sun)
Actually, I did. :) A little motivation helps...I have to be up by 6.

-Dan
 
my solution

X^4 – 3ax^3 + 3a^3 x + a^4 = 0
Forgetting the sign it is symmetric from left to right and a is increasing as x is decresing
So divide by x^2 and collect x^n and 1/x^n together

(X^2 + a^4/x^2) – 3a(x - a^2 /x) = 0
Or (x-a^2/x)^2 + 2a^2 – 3a(x-a^2/x) = 0
Putting x- a^2/x = y we get y^2 + 2a^2 – 3ay = 0
So y = a or 2a
So x^2 - 2ax – a^2 = 0 or x^2 –ax – a^2 = 0
both quadratic can be solved
 
Last edited:
kaliprasad said:
my solution

X^4 – 3ax^3 + 3a^3 x + a^4 = 0
Forgetting the sign it is symmetric from left to right and a is increasing as x is decresing
So divide by x^2 and collect x^n and 1/x^n together

(X^2 + a^4/x^2) – 3a(x - a^2 /x) = 0
Or (x-a^2/x)^2 + 2a^2 – 3a(x-a^2/x) = 0
Putting x- a^2/x = y we get y^2 + 2a^2 – 3ay = 0
So y = a or 2a
So x^2 - 2ax – a^2 = 0 or x^2 –ax – a^2 = 0
both quadratic can be solved

Thanks for participating, kaliprasad...

But I don't quite agree with the end result that you obtained.

Take for example if $$x^2 - 2ax – a^2 = 0$$ is true, solving it for $x$ we get:

$$x=a\pm a\sqrt{2}=a(1\pm \sqrt{2})$$

Substitute the expression of $x=a(1+\sqrt{2})$ above into the original given equation, we have:

$$x^4 – 3ax^3 + 3a^3 x + a^4=(a(1+ \sqrt{2}))^4 – 3a(a(1+ \sqrt{2}))^3 + 3a^3(a(1+ \sqrt{2})+ a^4=-12a^4 \ne 0$$

What do you think, kaliprasad?:)
 
anemone said:
Thanks for participating, kaliprasad...

But I don't quite agree with the end result that you obtained.

Take for example if $$x^2 - 2ax – a^2 = 0$$ is true, solving it for $x$ we get:

$$x=a\pm a\sqrt{2}=a(1\pm \sqrt{2})$$

Substitute the expression of $x=a(1+\sqrt{2})$ above into the original given equation, we have:

$$x^4 – 3ax^3 + 3a^3 x + a^4=(a(1+ \sqrt{2}))^4 – 3a(a(1+ \sqrt{2}))^3 + 3a^3(a(1+ \sqrt{2})+ a^4=-12a^4 \ne 0$$

What do you think, kaliprasad?:)
I did not check you calculation.
my solution matches with that of topsquark and further
(x^2-2ax - a^2)(x^2-ax - a^2) gives me the product

(x^4 - 3ax^3 + 3a^3 x +a4)where is the mistake
 
I'm so so sorry!

First, I didn't see topsquark has edited his post and added the solution in his first post...and second, I want to apologize for saying $x=a(1+\sqrt{2})$ isn't the solution to the given equation because it's...:o

And thanks for participating in this problem to both of you!:)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 48 ·
2
Replies
48
Views
4K
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K