Something weird with my Kurie-Plot (Beta Spectroscopy)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation and plotting of the Kurie Plot in the context of Beta Spectroscopy of Sodium. Participants are examining the implications of the Coulomb Correction Factor F(Z,p) and the resulting values of K(Z,p), as well as the overall behavior of the energy spectrum and potential issues with data interpretation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster describes their method for calculating K(Z,p) and expresses concern over unexpectedly large values on the order of 1020.
  • Some participants suggest providing specific data points and calculations with units to clarify the issue, noting that the electric charge in SI units could be a factor in the scaling problem.
  • The original poster mentions an adjusted R-squared value of 0.99 for their Energy Spectrum, indicating a belief in its accuracy despite issues with the Kurie Plot.
  • There is a reference to an alternative method of plotting sqrt(N/B3), which the original poster attempted but found the results unsatisfactory.
  • Concerns are raised about the velocities exceeding the speed of light, suggesting the need for relativistic formulas and the impact this may have on the approximation used for F(Z,p).
  • One participant notes that K is essentially inverse momentum, which could lead to large numerical values due to small electron momentum in the denominator, and suggests expressing it in different units for clarity.
  • The original poster questions whether the energy spectrum shifts due to background radiation from annihilation events, indicating a potential complication in interpreting the data.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various concerns and suggestions regarding the calculations and interpretations presented, but there is no consensus on the specific issues or solutions. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the calculations and the implications of the data.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the calculations, including the need for relativistic considerations and the impact of small values of B on the results. There are also unresolved questions about the influence of background radiation on the energy spectrum.

virtuosowanaB
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So I'm doing a Beta Spectroscopy of Sodium and apart from the Energy Spectrum, I'm intending to use the Kurie Plot to incorporate the Coulomb Correction Factor F(Z,p). But when I try plotting the data, my K(Z,p) has an incredibly huge number, on the order of 1020 and the linear graph looks weird. My Count Rate vs Energy selected graph is alright.

Here are my steps.

I am using the equation

- K(Z,p) = √{ N(p)/(p2F(z,p))}



- F(Z,p), I'm using = {2πη}/{ 1 - e(-22πη)}


where η = (Zq2)/( ħv)


- To calculate v, I'm using v = BqR/m


- So to calculate p2 I'm using (mv)2 = (BqR)2




- Daughter nucleus of the decay is Ne. Z = 10.




- For N(p), I'm using the number of counts measured over an interval of
4 minutes.

The rest are pretty much standard constants.

So for each corresponding count, there would be a corresponding energy selected.

And I will plot the K(Z,p) on the y-axis, vs Energy (keV) on the x-axis.

Is there anything wrong that I'm doing with my Kurie Variable calculation?
 
Last edited:
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You might want to show a data point and your calculations including all units being carried through. There's nothing obviously wrong with what you've explained so far, but I will note that the electric charge in SI units is ##1.6\cdot 10^{-19}##~C, which might explain the overall scaling problem you claim to have.
 
Here is a link of my spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkHJTKdqvwNhdFFYM0pQbndJbm5haTFkMl9BekZOa2c&usp=sharing

It has my Kurie Plot Data, as well as my Energy Spectrum Data.
My adjusted R-squared value for the Energy Spectrum is 0.99, which I believe has a decent accuracy.

I also read in http://www.hep.wisc.edu/~prepost/407/beta/beta.pdf on page 10, it says I could just plot sqrt(N/B^3).
I tried that too but my linear graph looks really messed up. I'm suspecting since my values of B are really small, it blows the numbers up to a really huge extent. But it should still work shouldn't it?
Is there something I'm overlooking?

Thanks a bunch

edit: Also I read from here:

http://www.phywe.de/index.php/fuseaction/download/lrn_file/versuchsanleitungen/P2523200/e/P2523200.pdf

which mentions that "The greatly intensified background in the 22Na spectrum is attributable to the 511 keV annihilation radiation."

Does this mean that the energy spectrum kind of shifts towards the 511 keV side, due to another "mini-peak" in energy?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If column G is the velocity in m/s, you have velocities that exceed the speed of light - I would expect that you need relativistic formulas there. That will also lead to problems with the approximation you use for F(Z,p).

K is basically inverse momentum, it will have a large numerical value (in SI units) due to the small electron momentum in the denominator. So what - you can express it in units of c/eV if you prefer smaller numbers.
 

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