Can this diagram make any sense? [counts of alpha decay]

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation and plotting of counts per second (cps) of alpha decay from Americium-241 in relation to varying pressure levels inside a chamber. Participants explore the implications of Boyle's law on the relationship between pressure and effective distance for alpha particles detected by a sensor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving a table of cps values for alpha decay at different pressures and expresses confusion over the expected relationship between cps and distance derived from pressure.
  • Another participant questions the meaning of the variable x in the context of the equation and inquires about the method of changing pressure in the chamber.
  • A participant suggests that the plot should represent pressure versus effective distance, questioning how cps fits into this relationship and proposing a potential inverse relationship between detections and pressure.
  • Another participant reiterates the idea that increasing pressure leads to increased gas density, which could affect the number of detections, and proposes a formula to convert pressure into effective distance.
  • One participant claims to have resolved their confusion and describes the resulting plot, noting that alpha particles are mostly absorbed at short distances, leading to zero counts at higher distances.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations of the relationship between pressure, effective distance, and counts per second, indicating that there is no consensus on the correct approach or understanding of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of pressure changes on gas density and detection rates without resolving the mathematical or conceptual uncertainties regarding the effective distance calculation.

MortalWombat
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Hello all you physics folks,

this is my first post, so if I screw this up, go easy on me :)

Here's the problem I'm working on and that I simply can't get my head wrapped around:

I have a table of 10 values of counts per second (cps) of alpha decay of Americium-241, depending on the pressure ##p## inside a chamber, where at a distance of ##x_0 = 6## cm a detector is mounted.

I have to plot the cps...but not against the pressure, but a distance corresponding to that pressure at normal pressure levels (##p = 1 bar##). I am to use Boyle-Marriots law
$$
p \cdot V = p \cdot A \cdot x = const.
$$

Since the cross-section of the chamber ##A## can be considered constant, we have
$$
p \cdot x = const.
$$

But this means that for decreasing pressure the distances get longer (that makes sense), but when I plot ##p_i## vs ##x_i##, I get an increasing cps count for longer distances, which is pretty much the opposite of what we'd want...any idea where I made a mistake here? Do I have to modify the cps counts in any way?

EDIT: my bad, I wanted to post a screenshot of my current graph
http://imgur.com/vegvPSu
 
Last edited:
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So what is the meaning of that x in the equation?
How do you change the pressure in the chamber? You have a piston that you move in the chamber?
 
MortalWombat said:
But this means that for decreasing pressure the distances get longer (that makes sense), but when I plot ##p_i## vs ##x_i##, I get an increasing cps count for longer distances

You mean you plot pressure "p" vs effective distance "x"... where do the counts per second appear in such a plot? Isn't this just a plot of y=A/x, for some constant A?
 
let's see.
You have a chamber with a radioactive isotope, and a detector at a set distance.
With increasing pressure in the chamber , you count the number of detections.

I imagine that the number of detections should vary inversely with the pressure. Is that what happens?

Then you want to plot the number of detections, versus an effective distance, with regards to pressure.

Your problem is how to convert the pressure into an effective distance?

Since, by increasing the pressure, the density of the gas also increases, and thereby the number of gas particles the radiation has a chance of encountering also increase.
Would not the effective distance would then just be Px/Po times Xo, where Po and Xo are the base values at 1 bar, and Px is the values of the prescribed pressure readings.
Or have I interpreted the experiment incorrectly.
 
256bits said:
let's see.
You have a chamber with a radioactive isotope, and a detector at a set distance.
With increasing pressure in the chamber , you count the number of detections.

I imagine that the number of detections should vary inversely with the pressure. Is that what happens?

Then you want to plot the number of detections, versus an effective distance, with regards to pressure.

Your problem is how to convert the pressure into an effective distance?

Since, by increasing the pressure, the density of the gas also increases, and thereby the number of gas particles the radiation has a chance of encountering also increase.
Would not the effective distance would then just be Px/Po times Xo, where Po and Xo are the base values at 1 bar, and Px is the values of the prescribed pressure readings.
Or have I interpreted the experiment incorrectly.

Yep, that's pretty much it. I figured it out yesterday night, the plot now looks like this
0faisWG.png


So after a short distance nearly all alpha particles are absorbed or stopped by air molecules, and then the counts are pretty much 0 for higher distances.
 
Excellent.
 

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