Space expanding or Time speeding up? Part 2

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of space expansion and the nature of time in relation to the origins of the universe, specifically addressing the implications of a singularity and the Big Bang theory. Participants explore theoretical models, their implications, and the challenges in understanding these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how the expansion of space can affect a singularity and whether this conundrum has been resolved.
  • There is a proposition that if time were speeding up, it could similarly affect a singularity by lowering temperature, suggesting that time may pre-exist the universe.
  • One participant argues that most Big Bang models do not include a singularity, as they cannot mathematically describe infinite energy density and temperature, implying that new physics may be needed to understand the state at t=0.
  • Another participant raises a question about how the theory of "time speeding up" could explain cosmic microwave background (CMB) observations.
  • Concerns are expressed about the lack of testable models for the idea of time speeding up, with a call for references to support such claims.
  • It is noted that the earliest evidence of the universe is a hot, dense state post-inflation, and the origins of inflation remain speculative and not fully understood.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of space and time, particularly in relation to singularities and the Big Bang. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on the validity of the proposed models.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in current models and the need for new physics to address questions about the singularity and the state of the universe at its inception. There is an acknowledgment of speculative ideas that lack empirical support.

CosmologyHobbyist
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Two questions, underlined:

I have read that the universe began with a singularity.
Then space began expanding.
How can space expanding affect a singularity? Has this conundrum been resolved?

If time was speeding up, is would act the same as space expanding, but it would affect a singularity, bringing the temperature down. This would mean time pre-exists the universe.
Many tests have concluded that space is not actually made out of "anything", so how can it expand?
But time is unknown in the properties of its constituents, so may have a possibility of speeding up.
In these two examples, time speeding up seems simpler, more elegant than space expanding. Is this correct? Or does it bring its own complications?
 
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CosmologyHobbyist said:
Two questions, underlined:

I have read that the universe began with a singularity.
Then space began expanding.
How can space expanding affect a singularity? Has this conundrum been resolved?

Most Big Bang models do not actually include singularity. They can describe points in time very close to it, but not singularity itself, since infinite energy density, temperature, curvature etc are not mathematically tractable.

It's like a mathematician talking about (0, t] set of real numbers. The set has numbers arbitrarily close to zero, but zero itself is not in that set.

If you ask "so what do Big Bang models say about t=0 moment?", they usually presume that before you can extrapolate to t=0, new, currently unknown physics changes the picture, and nonsensical infinitely dense state never existed.
 
How "time speeding up" theory explains CMB?
Also, rotational curves of galaxies were analyzed already some 40 years ago, I think. No slowdown in distant galaxies was found.
 
CosmologyHobbyist said:
I have read that the universe began with a singularity.
Then space began expanding.

This is a highly idealized, notional model that is not the one that is actually used by cosmologists. The earliest state of the universe of which we have firm evidence is a hot, dense, rapidly expanding state that, according to our best current model, was what came out at the end of inflation. But we don't know how inflation started or what came before that (we have various speculative models that we are only in the very early stages of trying to test).

CosmologyHobbyist said:
If time was speeding up

Unless you can find an acceptable reference (textbook or peer-reviewed paper) that gives such a model (I'm not aware of any), it's out of bounds for discussion here. We can't discuss speculations that don't have a testable model.
 

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