Special case of nonlinear first order ordinary differential equation.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a specific nonlinear ordinary differential equation (ODE) of the form v[t]*v'[t] + (4*v[t])/(t^2 - 1) = t/(t^2 - 1). Participants explore various methods and substitutions to approach the problem, including references to the Abel equation of the second kind and potential parameterizations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant identifies the ODE as the Abel equation of the second kind but expresses confusion about the substitution method.
  • Another participant suggests a substitution involving an integral of a function f(x) and discusses the implications of this substitution for the original differential equation.
  • A later reply questions the straightforwardness of the substitution and suggests that a parameterization may be necessary.
  • One participant proposes a specific form of the solution involving a parameterization and expresses uncertainty about its correctness, noting that it worked for a simpler case.
  • Another participant critiques the previous approach and suggests that computing the inverse of a function may complicate the solution process.
  • Concerns are raised about the difficulty of computing the inverse function in the context of the proposed methods.
  • One participant recommends consulting additional resources to find test cases and explanations related to the parameterization used in the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to solving the ODE, with multiple competing views and methods being discussed. Uncertainty remains regarding the validity of proposed substitutions and the overall solution strategy.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of the substitution methods and the need for further verification of their approaches. The discussion highlights the complexity and potential pitfalls in solving nonlinear ODEs.

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Hi there,

I've having problems solving a particular nonlinear ODE. Any help/suggestions will be highly appreciated.

The nonlinear ODE is:

v[t]*v'[t] + (4*v[t])/(t^2 - 1) = t/(t^2 - 1)

Thank you.
 
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If:

[tex]z=\int f(x)dx[/tex]

then:

[tex]\frac{dz}{dx}=f(x)[/tex]

or:

[tex]\frac{dx}{dz}=\frac{1}{f}[/tex]

now just substitute back into the original DE
 
Thanks for your reply, I understand your point but if you look at the example in the link I posted, you will see that the substitution is not as straightforward as you put it.

Seems to me that there's some sort of parametrization to be done.
 
. . . what did I get myself into. But that's ok, need to be willing to try things in math to succeed and not let the risk of failure stop you but I'd rather not make two mistakes in one day. So I think it's this below but I'd have to work on it more with real problems to verify it ok.


Suppose you have:

[tex]vv'=f(t)v+g(t)[/tex]

and you let:

[tex]z=\int f dt[/tex]

to obtain:

[tex]v\frac{dv}{dz}=v+\Phi(t)[/tex]

where:

[tex]\Phi(t)=\frac{g(t)}{f(t)}[/tex]

and suppose we're able to solve:

[tex]v\frac{dv}{dz}=v+\Phi(z)=v+\frac{g(z)}{f(z)}[/tex]

say for example the solution is:

[tex]v(z)=z^3-3\sin(z)[/tex]

but z is paramaterized by t so that we can write the solution for the original problem as:

[tex]v(t)=z^3-3\sin(z);\quad z=\int f(t)[/tex]

I'm not sure at this point but it's what I'm going with for now until I can verify that or someone can correct me.

Also, I should mention this holds for the simple case:

[tex]vv'=tv+t[/tex]

which can be solved exactly but that's still no guarantee my explanation above is correct for the general case. Never worked on this type of problem before
 
Last edited:
Ok, after reviewing I don't think that's correct. If we have:

[tex]y\frac{dy}{dz}=y+\Phi(t)=y+\frac{g(t)}{f(t)}[/tex]

and:

[tex]z=\int f(t)=h(t)[/tex]

then I believe we'd have to compute the inverse:

[tex]t=h^{-1}(z)[/tex]

then solve:

[tex]y\frac{dy}{dz}=y+\Phi\big(h^{-1}(z)\big)[/tex]

I'm probably making a mess out of this but I'd at least like to demonstrate how sometimes real math is not so neat and pretty and quick and often fought with many wrong turns and maybe I'm still going wrong.
 
Pheeww! Mathematics indeed could be rattling, been on the problem for sometime now.
The problem I foresee with your last review is computing:

[tex]t=h^{-1}(z)[/tex]

Can't see how that will be done.
 
Well I probably don't have it exactly right yet. However if this was my problem, I would go to the library and find one of those Russian texts cited in the Eqnworld reference and get some simple test cases with the answers and study them and maybe the references would explain how the parameterization is used. I'll look at it more later.
 

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