Special Relativity - time dilation and length contraction

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in special relativity, specifically focusing on time dilation and length contraction as they pertain to high-energy protons traveling across the galaxy. The problem involves calculating the time difference in arrival between a photon and a proton, as well as the perceived diameter of the galaxy from the proton's reference frame.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the calculations for time differences and length contraction, with one participant providing an answer for the time difference using a binomial expansion.
  • Questions arise regarding the application of formulas for length contraction and the interpretation of results, particularly in the context of the proton's reference frame.
  • There is a discussion about the expected outcomes of length contraction and the confusion surrounding the calculations leading to dilation instead.
  • Some participants suggest looking at the problem from a spacetime diagram perspective to clarify the measurements in different reference frames.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants actively sharing their attempts and reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the calculations and interpretations, but there is still uncertainty about the correct application of the concepts involved. Multiple interpretations of the results are being explored, particularly concerning the relationship between the proton's rest frame and the measurements of distance and time.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of the problem statement, which includes specific values for the diameter of the galaxy and the gamma factor for the protons. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in switching reference frames and the assumptions that must be checked in the calculations.

Isaac Pepper
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Homework Statement


The highest energy protons have gamma factors around ##1.0*10^{12}##.
(a) Our galaxy has a disk diameter of 30 kpc, which is ##9.3*10^{20}m##. If a photon and one of these high energy protons start traversing the galaxy at the same time, by how long will the arrival of the photon on the other side precede the arrival of the proton, in the rest frame of the galaxy? Give your answer in seconds.
(b) To an observer in the reference frame of the traveling proton, what is the measured diameter of the galaxy in kpc?
(c) To an observer in the reference frame of the traveling proton, how long does the journey across the galaxy take? Give your answer in seconds.

Homework Equations


##t'=\gamma (t-\frac{xv}{c^2})##
##x'=\gamma (x-vt)##

The Attempt at a Solution


(a) I have managed to get an answer of ##1.55*10^{-12} s## for this question using a binomial expansion.
(b) I'm not sure as to how to obtain the diameter of the galaxy in the reference frame of the traveling proton.
I'm assuming it should be shorter in the reference frame of the proton due to length contraction
Do I have to use the formula ##x'=\gamma(x-vt)## where x is ##9.3*10^{20}m## and ##t=\frac{d}{v} =\frac {9.3*10^{20}}{(3*10^8 - 1.55*10^{-12})}## ? When I do I get an answer which isn't contracted, but is dilated.

(c) ... Once I've understood how to do (b) I'm sure I can work out (c)!

Thanks in advance for any help !
 
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Isaac Pepper said:

Homework Statement


The highest energy protons have gamma factors around ##1.0*10^{12}##.
(a) Our galaxy has a disk diameter of 30 kpc, which is ##9.3*10^{20}m##. If a photon and one of these high energy protons start traversing the galaxy at the same time, by how long will the arrival of the photon on the other side precede the arrival of the proton, in the rest frame of the galaxy? Give your answer in seconds.
(b) To an observer in the reference frame of the traveling proton, what is the measured diameter of the galaxy in kpc?
(c) To an observer in the reference frame of the traveling proton, how long does the journey across the galaxy take? Give your answer in seconds.

Homework Equations


##t'=\gamma (t-\frac{xv}{c^2})##
##x'=\gamma (x-vt)##

The Attempt at a Solution


(a) I have managed to get an answer of ##1.55*10^{-12} s## for this question using a binomial expansion.
(b) I'm not sure as to how to obtain the diameter of the galaxy in the reference frame of the traveling proton.
I'm assuming it should be shorter in the reference frame of the proton due to length contraction
Do I have to use the formula ##x'=\gamma(x-vt)## where x is ##9.3*10^{20}m## and ##t=\frac{d}{v} =\frac {9.3*10^{20}}{(3*10^8 - 1.55*10^{-12})}## ? When I do I get an answer which isn't contracted, but is dilated.
Your calculation should give you x'=0, which should make sense. Because the proton is at rest in its rest frame, it remains at x'=0.

On a spacetime diagram, you should be looking for the length along the x' axis. You're looking for the distance between the opposite ends of the galaxy at the same instant in time in the proton's frame.

(c) ... Once I've understood how to do (b) I'm sure I can work out (c)!

Thanks in advance for any help !
 
Is it simply ##x'=\frac{x}{\gamma}=\frac{9.3*10^{20}}{1*10^{12}}=9.3*10^{8}m = 3*10^{-8} pc## then?

In which case (c) would also simply be ##t=\frac{t'}{\gamma} = \frac{(3.1*10^{12}+1.55*10^{-12})}{1*10^{12}} ≈ 3.1 s## ?
Doesn't seem right to me..

EDIT :: ##t'=\frac{d}{c}+1.55*10^{-12}=\frac{9.3*10^{20}}{3*10^8}+1.55+10^{-12}## which I found in part (a), I forgot to explain where my t' came from, sorry.
 
Last edited:
Yes, that's right. Note if you divide x' by c, you also get 3.1 s, which matches the answer you got for (c). This is the calculation an observer at rest relative to the proton would make based on measurements in that reference frame.
 
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