Square of a differentiable functional

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical treatment of the square of a differentiable functional, specifically focusing on the variation of such a functional represented by an integral. Participants explore the implications of differentiability and the definitions involved in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an expression for the variation of a functional defined as an integral, suggesting a first-order approximation.
  • Several participants seek clarification on the nature of the function involved, questioning whether it is a functional or a function and the relevance of the integral.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for formal definitions when discussing functional derivatives and the squaring of functionals.
  • A different perspective is introduced regarding the proof of differentiability, referencing the chain rule and suggesting that the original proof lacks context.
  • One participant clarifies that their focus is on finding an expression for the variation of the square functional, indicating a division of the question into proving differentiability and finding the variation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and context of the functional being discussed, with some seeking clarification and others providing alternative perspectives. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the topic.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions of functionals and functions, as well as the assumptions underlying the mathematical expressions presented. The discussion highlights the need for clarity in definitions and context to facilitate understanding.

LCSphysicist
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TL;DR
Write a formula for the square functional's variation
1603038459204.png

I will consider first the case of ## \left [ J \right ] = \int f(x,y,y') ##, if it is right believe is easy to generalize...
$$ \Delta J $$
$$\int (f(x,y+h,y'+h'))^2 - (f(x,y,y'))^2 $$
$$\int \sim [f(x,y,y') + f_{y}(x,y,y')h + f_{y'}(x,y,y')h']^2 - [f(x,y,y')]^2$$
to first order: $$\int \sim 2f(x,y,y')[f_{y}h + f_{y'}h']$$

All is ok? Is this right?
 

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What sort of function are you talking about here, and why the integral?
 
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PeroK said:
What sort of function are you talking about here, and why the integral?
"What sort of function?" Sorry, i think i don't understand the question. It is a functional, and the integral, yes, there is another types of functional, but as this chapter just treat the integral cases, i follow it and consider this functional form. But if you are talking about f, i am restringing it to continuous function with first derivative functions too.
 
LCSphysicist said:
"What sort of function?" Sorry, i think i don't understand the question. It is a functional, and the integral, yes, there is another types of functional, but as this chapter just treat the integral cases, i follow it and consider this functional form. But if you are talking about f, i am restringing it to continuous function with first derivative functions too.
You'll need to be careful about how things are defined here. Are you squaring the functional? Or some function, the integral of which is the functional? How is a functional derivative defined?

If you are trying to prove something you need a formal definition.
 
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To Perok's point, here's what I expected to see for proving the square of a differentiable function is differentiable.

If f(x) is differentiable, let ##g(x)=x^2##. Then g is differentiable, and by the chain rule g(f(x)) is differentiable.
Your proof looks, well, different, which suggests we are missing context. Some people may know what you're talking about, but a little extra guidance as to what the objects are you are dealing with will widen the net of who can help you.
 
Actually, the question can be divided in two parts, to prove it, and find an expression for the square functional's variation. My post was about the second, as it is in the summary, i believe it was easier to start
 

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