Square Sheet of Cardboard Problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical problem involving the optimization of the volume of a box formed from a square sheet of cardboard. Participants explore the relationships between the dimensions of the box and the volume, as well as the application of calculus to find maximum or minimum values.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Participants discuss the equations for length, width, and height of the box in terms of a variable x.
  • There is a proposal to find the volume V as a function of x, leading to the equation V = 2x^3 - 40x^2 + 200x.
  • Some participants calculate the derivative of the volume function, V', and identify critical points where V' = 0, specifically x = 10 and x = 10/3.
  • Questions arise regarding whether x = 10 is a valid solution, with one participant asserting it leads to a volume of 0.
  • There is uncertainty about how to determine whether x = 10/3 corresponds to a maximum or minimum volume.
  • One participant suggests using the first and second derivative tests to classify the critical points.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to evaluate the sign of the derivative around critical points to confirm whether they indicate maxima or minima.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of x = 10 as a solution and whether x = 10/3 yields a maximum or minimum volume. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the classification of the critical points and the application of derivative tests.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the understanding of derivative tests and the conditions under which critical points indicate maxima or minima. Some participants may have misconceptions about the application of these tests.

pataflora
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The question and the answer choices are in the screenshots. I need it asap if possible please. Thanks!
 

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$L=20-2x$, $W=10-x$, $H=x$

what now?
 
You substitute x for H

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Oh wait do you plug in the equations to each variable to multiply?

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You are supposed to multiply all those equations?
 
$V = LWH$

get an equation for the box volume in terms of x, determine the value of x that makes V’ = 0, then use the first or second derivative test to determine if that value of x indicates a max or min volume.
 
The equation in terms of x would be V = 2x^3 - 40x^2 + 200x

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Right?
 
And the derivative of that is V'= 6x^2 - 80x + 200?
 
Ok ... finish it.
 
The value of x that makes V’ = 0 is 10 and 10/3

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Would that be a minimum or a maximum?
 
pataflora said:
The value of x that makes V’ = 0 is 10 and 10/3

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Would that be a minimum or a maximum?

How do you determine a max or a min?

More importantly, is it possible to make a box if x = 10?
 
  • #10
It would not be possible for x = 10 inches because once it is substituted into the original equation it gives a result of 0

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So the only x value that we are left with is 10/3
 
  • #11
How do I identify if there is a maximum or a minimum with x = 10/3?
 
  • #12
So, does x = 10/3 determine a max or a min volume?
 
  • #13
x = 10/3 would give off a maximum volume right?

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Because the value I get is of about 296 when I substitute x = 10/3 to the original equation.
 
  • #14
How do you know 296 is not a minimum?

What derivative test will confirm your conclusion?
 
  • #15
By sketching or graphing the original equation to find out that x=10/3 does in fact give a maximum value.
 
  • #16
I recommend you research the first and second derivative tests and how they can be used to classify extrema.
 
  • #17
I have researched the topic. So x = 10/3 will be substituted into the derivative equation, giving a result of 0
 
  • #18
pataflora said:
I have researched the topic. So x = 10/3 will be substituted into the derivative equation, giving a result of 0

Sorry, but your statement is not the first derivative test for extrema. You already set the derivative equal to zero to find x = 10/3 and x = 10, critical values of x where extrema may be located.

Note that critical values are not necessarily the location for a max or min.

The first derivative test requires one to evaluate the value of the derivative using x-values on both sides of a critical value to determine if the sign of the derivative value changes.

If the value of the derivative changes sign from positive to negative, then that critical value is the location of a maximum.

If the value of the derivative changes sign from negative to positive, then that critical value is the location of a minimum.

You need to understand the reasoning why the test works. I leave that for you to find out.

Good night.
 

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