Stressed Over School? 3.759 GPA, Top 20 Rank - Help Me Decide!

[Zach_C]

I'm still lost on the idea that we care too much about scores. It's all part of the entrance. Blame the system.

Guidance counselors really should not be telling you what to do next.That is too much responsibility. Mine were just there to help out in selecting classes to help me get where I wanted to go and to help with paperwork if needed. This is all they should be doing. As for which college should I look at, that is something no one but you should decide. Go to Barnes and Noble and just cruise the books. It will show you nthe best schools for the major you want that also match the test scores you make. Research is invaluable.

 

[bjr_jyd15]

I second mathwonk's post. You guys care WAY too much about scores and stuff.

Bseides, you should be more worried about what you know than what grades you get.

Deadwolfe, I'm sorry if I came off like I worry too much about my grades--the truth is, another user needed some advice, and seeing as how I'm a high school senior right now who has just gone through it all, I figured I would be a good candidate to help her.

I agree with Zach: You cannot blame students for grades being such an important factor in today's society. All colleges want good scores, and it is up to us, the students, to deliver them in order to earn admission.

 

[misskitty]

That is the only reason why I care so much about my scores. Its because that's the only schools care about. Not to mention my guidance counselor lead me to believe that is the only thing that matters.

As far as what to do next, the reason I asked my guidance counselor what to do is because I have don't know anything about applying to college, where to look for scholarships, how to get my transcripts sent to my schools, all the things that come along with applying to college. I don't know anything about applying to college.

I too agree with Zach. Students are so grade and score oriented is because that's what they are lead to believe that is the only thing that matters. I'm still trying to remember that myself.

 

[Zach_C]

misskitty:

For undergrad test scores are one of the best indicators out there, along with letters of recomendation. I had to have 3 letters for my application. Build up a good relationship with some teachers and show them you care about school. 1-3 letters is all you will need. Another one is the essay. At some schools you can even clip out of freshmen comp if it is good enough.

Here is a checklist: (Things that will make your application very sound.)

GPA - If you have a 3.5 you can get into a really good school. The Ivy league is no longer the only way. State schools have caught up tremendously. At 3.75 schools will start looking at scholarships although they may be small depending on the SAT or ACT scores. A 4.0 is great grounds for money.

ACT & SAT - Along the same lines of GPA. Decides money and what classes you should be started at. Someone will have to translate the ACT scores to the SAT for me. The ACT should be at about a 22 to look at entrance. 27+ will begin to look at money and possible clipping along with a good GPA and possible AP classes. 34+ you should definitely be getting money.
As to which test to take. It depends on the region. The way I always here it said is if you are looking at a school along the coast go SAT if you are looking at the central US go ACT. For what schools you listed I would go for the SAT. That seems to be more af a standard that is used everywhere anyway. If you decide on a few in the central US the ACT is all you really need. This was my case as the only school that really uses the SAT that I looked at was Stanford but still was not my first pick and the others were more ACT oriented. So, I went that route. You have a large gamut of schools so I would attempt to take both.

Letters of rec - This will probably help you out a lot more than you might think. Try to get some letters going at the start of your senior year. Pick teachers that really believe that you could flourish in college and your major. Otherwise if the teacher likes you but doesn't really know who you are you will get a mediocre letter. It won't be bad but not phenomenalWhat I did is I picked two teachers in the field I was going into. One was my physics and chemistry teacher. I knew her well because she taught 2 classes I took and attended meetings at a university that I went to also. Then my AP computer science teacher. Which is a somewhat applicable field. She loved me because I went through with no lower than a 98%. Then pick one that is completely different. Art, English or music will do well. I went with my english teacher. Do you see how to pick them now. pick teachers you left a mark on and it will leave a mark on the college. And as in stocks, diversify.

The essay - Start early. Schools post the topics early. And the topics are close enough that you can do one and use it as a core for the rest if you needed to. Mine took a few months to write because I felt there was always something else I could do to make it better. Some schools want an app in by November. I believe it is like this with MIT, Berkeley, etc. Check that out. Start on those essays in the summer and the rest I would begin in September as you are finishing up the first batch of apps. The second batch won't be needed in until January - March. Watch for rolling decisions though.

These are just extra things to do: (Make life easier on you.)

Look for scholarships now - Don't wait until your senior year. This is a mistake I made.

Decide that this is what you want to do - Some things seem interesting until you do it. Find an old textbook and try to self teach if you can do it and enjoy it at the same time then you will have fun. If not, think it over.

Which school would be best - MIT may not be the best for example. Did you want a combination in physics and business? If you wanted this and the school name, check out Harvard or Princeton. MIT will be lacking in business. It's not their field. If you are undecided between music or physics then go to a state school. If you change your mind the money won't be as big of a shock. And you can always transfer when you are sure. Money will go farther on this route.

 

[Zach_C]

Sure you should do it for the physics itself. No one is denying that. However, you should still try for your best. Don't blow off grades because doing homework would be a waste of your time for other subject matter.

Mathwonk, are you ok. The connotation I get from your post seems to be harboring some animosity teetering on the edge of malice. Although the rhetoric is obvious please provide some examples that people could use in your last two posts. Purely using your profession as credentials seems analogous as a student using grades to get into college. Sorry to speak like this but...

reading these posts makes me sad. you guys seem to be obsessing over things that do not matter.

one guy regretted not retaking the sats even though he got into the school of his choice! how pointless can you get?

posts like that coming from a college professor to a high school student trying to give advice seems a bit immature. Perhaps we can all hit this level of maturity some day if we try hard enough. Sorry, for all this. Your first contribution was good. However the second seemed like an attack to a post that was not pointless. It was someone giving advice from their experience. That should never be looked down upon. And the 3rd one seemed like a bashing towards the topic starter for listening to the advice.

 

[misskitty]

Zach, that's awesome advice. Thanks so much... yay for direction.

Do you know where I could get copies of the college essays for my schools and where to look for scholarships? I've been to the websites for all my schools, but I can't find the essays. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Your advice is greatly appreciated/I].

 

[Shockwave]

Mathwonk, please be honest. Are you really a professor? Your behavior in this thread is quite erratic for an educator. I don't know why you're discouraging these young people, but I'd appreciate it if you'd stop.
You people stress grades upon us, and it serves you right if we think more about grades, than the actual material being taught.

 

[bjr_jyd15]

Mathwonk, I'm sorry to say this, but you have lost some credibility with your counter-productive posts in this thread. In which college are you a professor? Are you really also an admissions director? I'm not sure how you can say all of that and expect students to believe it...when one applies for universities, they rarely give you a physics test to see how much you understand.

I agree that understanding physics is important, yes, but because of the selection process used by thousands of colleges, standardized test scores and GPAs, and recommendations are important also.

 

[Zach_C]

Zach, that's awesome advice. Thanks so much... yay for direction.

Do you know where I could get copies of the college essays for my schools and where to look for scholarships? I've been to the websites for all my schools, but I can't find the essays. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Your advice is greatly appreciated/I].

To access the essays go to the undergraduate admissions sections. And most of the times it's under how to apply. At MIT I actually had to download an app. It was on there though.

Pick 1 of the 2:

Essay A Life brings many disappointments as well as satisfactions. Tell us about a time in your life when you experienced disappointment, or faced difficult or trying circumstances. How did you react?

Essay B An application to MIT is much more than a set of test scores, grades and activities. It's often a reflection of an applicant's dreams and aspirations, dreams shaped by the worlds we inhabit. We'd like to know a bit more about your world. Describe the world you come from, for example your family, clubs, school, community, city, or town. How has that world shaped your dreams and aspirations?

As far as scholarships go, this is where the guidance counselors are expected to take part in. They will have resources for you. However you will have to look. Some schools have a college and career guide. This is how I did it at my school.

 

[mathwonk]

gee, i find it amazing how difficult it is to get some people to believe remarks based on years and years of experience.

In my experience success in life really is based on hard work, and real understanding, and dedication to what counts, not meaningless grades.

Recommendations are also far more important than scores, because those are letters written by people who should know you well.

Let me give you an example:

Say someone has a moderate score on some standardized test, but has a letter like this:

"...This extremely promising student does not test all that well for some reason, possibly a disinclination to hurry on uninteresting timed work.

But I assure you, in 20 years of teaching students who have gone to top universities including every Ivy league school, [e.g...sample names...], I have never seen anyone with this much potential as a scientist.

She has the depth of mind, and the intellectual courage and tenacity to solve genuinely deep problems in any area of physics or applied mathematics. Her independent project in my senior honors physics class, was at least as good as that by [so and so] who went to Harvard last year on a merit scholarship."

If you accept her, I am confident you will not regret it for a moment."



See what I mean?


I hope this helps some.



best wishes,

mathwonk,

yeah i really am a college professor, but not at MIT.

 

[juvenal]

but in my experience success in life really is based on hard work, and real understanding, and dedication to what counts, not meaningless grades.

I find this statement rather naive, idealistic, and utterly detached from reality. The system places emphasis on "meaningless" things, like grades and SAT scores (which you are a big fan of anyhow). Blame the system, not the students who want to succeed within the system.

Are you always so grumpy?

Also - being a professor does not mean that one has any grounding in reality. I know more than a few professors at Caltech who are very smart and extremely good at their research, but are clueless otherwise, among other faults. They are truly in their own little worlds.

 

[Data]

You are misinterpreting what mathwonk is trying to tell you. He is not being "grumpy," he's trying to give you worthwhile advice. Thinking about grades won't get you much of anywhere. If you understand what you're doing, then the grades will follow naturally.

"Naive and idealistic" seems to be mutually exclusive with "grumpy" as far as I understand the terms anyhow.

Disregard good advice at your own peril.

 

[mathwonk]

forgive me, but you sound a little cynical, juvenal. Idealistic is really not the equivalent of naive.

And I apologize for my pique at being ignored earlier. That was petty of me.

I am speaking from the perspective of someone who made what he now sees as the same mistakes I think I see expressed here. I had the grades, the scores, the paper qualifications, the grants and scholarships, but I did not realize there was no joy in pretending, and that the grades were not the brass ring. I became cynical too.

Until I learned to love the subject for itself, I was not fulfilled in my work, and ultimately I was not successful either.

Then when I finally found it, I found fulfillment everywhere I went. Every school I went to, prestigious or not, had excellent people wanting to teach me, because I was eager to learn, and willing to work hard.

Eventually the rewards started coming back, and soon I was being honored even above some people who had gotten into "top" schools but did not have comparable results to show for their advantages.

This may sound unbelievable to you now, but in fact tuition is only charged of people who do not realize it is not necessary to pay money to learn. People who want prestigious degrees from fancy places must pay for those. People who only want to learn, and can demonstrate their qualifications, are welcomed anywhere by the best teachers.

A wise person once told me "attention will get you teachers". Do you understand this?

After hearing this i never again paid a dime to get the best instruction in the world. I went to some of the best schools on grants provided in part by the professors themselves.

So work hard, but do not worry too much.

Of course it is true that if you are in a place where the people are very foolish, or very exploitive, then you may not be well valued. Then it is time to move on.

good luck,

and best wishes,

 

[MathStudent]

I would really like to second what mathwonk has said here. It has been my experience as well that above grades and test scores, teachers recognize genuine interest and effort to actually learning the material. This can go a long way.

Of course I would not deny that society evaluates us mostly by our performance on standardized tests, and gpa, but I feel this is due to an absence of other criteria. I mean who wants to take the time to actually get to know you.

As mathwonk pointed out there are other ways, there are those teachers that are waiting to know you on a deeper level besides your statistics. I feel this number system of evaluation (test scores, gpa, etc.. ) ends anyway after you reach a certain point in your career.

The best thing to do, is do everything you can, explore all options. And in the end be satisfied with the result however it might turn out.

 

[Data]

Even with all these things going on, I have a GPA of 3.759 and a class rank of top 20. I can't help but feel like its not a good GPA at all. I feel ashamed that my GPA is only a 3.759. Am I stressing about something I should be proud of and happy with? Id having a 3.759 a good GPA? Do I have any hope of getting into these schools? Or should I just squish all my hopes? Please help out I really don't know what to do.

Statements like these are what make replies like those above so important.

There is small reason to be dissapointed in a low GPA just because it is low, or to be proud of a high GPA just because it is high. Try your best to learn what you want to learn. There isn't anything to be ashamed about with respect to a low grade on test. If you happen to miss entrance into your school of choice because of a low score, do not worry; if you work hard, and genuinely try to understand what you study, it will make little difference in the long run.

I only found these forums a couple of weeks ago, but there's a reason why I'm around so much now. Certainly it doesn't help me significantly improve my grades answering questions here. I do it because it is a way to learn new things, and an opportunity to revisit things I may have already learned, to understand them better.

 

[mathwonk]

thanks for your comments data. you sound like a young person who has already found some wisdom normally reserved for older heads.

 

[Data]

Frankly, I'm more worried right now about finding ways to show my interest in the subjects I study than my grades :/

 

[Zach_C]

First off, thank you mathwonk. My only beef was with the 2nd and 3rd posts. I like the contributions you are making. My only objection is that if you do end up with some blemishes that you were capable of not having then you could be missing out. In high school I knew this brilliant kid. However, he spent too much time on his own projects and experiments. He went to a local university. Not a bad one. However, a person I knew with far less potential went to Harvard. I completely agree with doing what your capable of. I am also the type that would go insane if I didn't go for the grades and a 4.0. And I would crash and burn in a university with people who did not stress over grades. Oddly enough it is who I am comfortable with. It's a setting I can flourish in. Now, if someone is stressing over their grades is that a bad thing? yes and no. If you can fix something then there is no need to worry. If you can not fix something then there is no point in worrying. However, if I was not stressed a bit I would become somewhat apathetic. I know the girl who went to Harvard stressed over grades and she has definitely encountered plenty of great things that she could not have experienced otherwise. Misskitty, my advice is that if you are worried about your GPA then by all means improve it. It will need it for MIT. Grades are a good indicator of your understanding. As the example I gave earlier in this post it is not always. I would say 99.9% of the time you can safely go on it. The fact that you can get the same education at any university I do not disagree with. Your education is what you make of it. However, the experience and the setting is what other schools give you. A setting can have a great impact on a kid. Once again, I went to high school with a kid who in the gifted and talented program, which had us take the ACT in 8th grade, scored a 25 on his ACT. Junior year he got a 34, if I remember right + or - 1, and flunked and dropped out. By no means daft but it was a small town in the south where kids were educated to be farmers and to die in that town. I know I would not have gotten out if I did not stress over grades. Do I regret stressing over the school, not one minute. I do not think that if you take the SAT so much you will eventually score high enough to get into a school over your head. By the way, my transcript had every ACT test I took on it. Don't all of them? You will not exceed your potential.

I do agree that the letters of rec and the essay are probably the most major criteria. Afterall, how many 4.0 kids apply? However, they should not be overlooked. I've known too many people who had to prove they could do the subjects at community college. I would not want to jeopardize my education like that.

Sorry, for typos and grammar. I typed fast.

 

[Data]

Grades aren't any sort of indicator of understanding, at least not at high-school level. They're an indicator of how much time you put into practicing at answering specific questions. I probably had the tenth-highest grades in mathematics in my graduating high school class (of only ~130 students), but nevertheless, if one of those with higher grades had a question, they would invariably ask me.


I posted an interesting account of an encounter I had with a university student seeking math help in another thread. He could answer calculus questions, but he couldn't deduce what \cot(\arcsin(x)), \ 0<|x|\leq 1 simplified to, or how to plot \ln(|\sin(x)|), \ x \neq k\pi \ \forall k \in \mathbb{Z}. That is not "understanding."

I see many similar things happen to students at my university; People who graduated from high school with perfect math scores not being able to score higher than a vanilla B on second-year university exams (and many others who didn't make it out of first year at all). The way to succeed is to make sure that you are doing something that you want to do, and that you are willing to spend time to truly understand the subject.

Last week I made a pair of silly mistakes on a test. Certainly, I was annoyed with myself afterwards. But it didn't matter, because I still understood all of the material with perfect clarity, and my professors and TAs are perfectly well aware of it. Once you start university, you will discover very quickly that being able to answer practice problems correctly is not what wins you credit. Understanding and attentiveness is. Getting used to concentrating on your grades and not on understanding at the high school level will, as far as I have observed, only force you to make an extra adjustment when you get out. This is precisely why the top schools in their fields have so many criteria beyond grades.

Grades may get you through high school, but only understanding will get you through life.

 

[Shockwave]

My grades are all I've got. Without them, I'm nothing. I measure my success not on the information I've picked up through the various years, but by the scores I've made. I know you must hate that, MathWonk. I'm the exact opposite of you. Yes, maybe later on in life I'll have a different perspective, but right now, GRADES ARE ALL I'VE GOT. Please, don't rain on my parade. I know your intentions were good, but now the time has come to stop, and leave us be.

 

[Zach_C]

I posted an interesting account of an encounter I had with a university student seeking math help in another thread. He could answer calculus questions, but he couldn't deduce what simplified to, or how to plot . That is not "understanding."

Without help he probably would have got the wrong nanswer. These wrong answers would probably lower their score. I don't believe you can use somebody who could not figyre out how to simplify a problem for his homework. For good grades the answer has to be right. At least at the schools I have been to, we did not receive an A if we just trued.

Last week I made a pair of silly mistakes on a test. Certainly, I was annoyed with myself afterwards. But it didn't matter, because I still understood all of the material with perfect clarity, and my professors and TAs are perfectly well aware of it. Once you start university, you will discover very quickly that being able to answer practice problems correctly is not what wins you credit. Understanding and attentiveness is. Getting used to concentrating on your grades and not on understanding at the high school level will, as far as I have observed, only force you to make an extra adjustment when you get out. This is precisely why the top schools in their fields have so many criteria beyond grades.

What grade did you come out with? I would assume a B possibly an A.

I'm still afraid that a person who makes a C on a test does not thoroughly understand it. I'm still failing to see the logic that people could make a C on the test and then say,"well, I understood it all perfectly".

 

[Gale]

miss kitty, here's what happened to me, i hope it gives you a little perspective:

ook... its sort of a long story, but i'll try and sum it up as painlessly as possible, and if you're interested, i can explain more.

high school GPA- 2.6 (and that's with rounded optimistically)
I took honors classes and even AP calc/phys junior year, but my grades were always very mediocre.
SATs- 1460, 800 math 660 verbal (i like tests...)
most of my teachers hated me cause i was a smart ass who wouldn't do any work and would consistenly ace their tests anyways. I was also so audacious that i actually helped other kids in class with their hw, and even tutored though i was getting C's and D's.
I BOMBED AP's, i mean hard core bombage. of course, i didn't really go to calc/phys, so it wasn't surprising. (if you're interested i got a 2 on physics mechanics, and a 1 on calc BC, a 2 on the AB subscore.)

Gah ok, i edited again, it was getting long, starting over.

So, i end up in Calc3 at a local college regardless of my calc grades and AP scores. then i decide to graduate early. My guidance counselor informs me that i basicaly "suck" and i won't get into good schools, so i should really consider ****ty schools instead. But even though she assures me i likely won't get in, i apply to Umass. She says i suck some more, and i decided applying to Umass was a waste of money, and now I'm just praying i get into one of the really small local schools, and i don't apply to UNH. Then we have some issues over retaking that history class i failed, and sometime while the whole thing was happening, i get a letter from Umass. I got in! I'm like, wtf, she said i wouldn't get in, wtf... i look at umass' site, they accept GED's, so i go to my guidance counselor, and I'm like, "look, i got in, and I'm pretty sure i can still get in even if i got a GED, and if not, I'm certain i can get into a ****ty school with a GED and eventually transfer anyways, so I'm dropping out unless something awesome happens," (with regards to the history class.) So, cue the prinicipal. She's all like "oh no, but you've got high SAT scores, if you dropped out, it'd give the school bad statistics... can't we make things work?!?" miraculously, an online course shows up, and the school is suddenly willing to allow it, and everything's cool.

So, i get to Umass, and things are still weird. I show up to sign up for classes, and they don't make me retake mechanics or Calc's 1, 2, or 3, my advisor says he'd "hate to slow me down." So, everything worked out, i guess.

Anyways, its a really really weird story, I'm not at all conventional, but i certainly assure you that a 3.7 won't keep you out of good schools. Umass is a great school, (like somone said, states schools have really caught up with ivy leagues.) and sides, they have a 5 college exchange programs so i can go to these 4 other really great schools for free. I only had a 2.6, but you i had high SATs, i also had one decent recomendation letter, and erm, a good essay? my dad said my essay sucked, but eh, it basically explained my high school career... which i think probably helped. Maybe it helped that I'm only 17, and female, i dunno.

i think probably the biggest factor for getting any where in life is determination anyways. Ya, i got ****ty grades, but i was determined that it wouldn't matter, that i could take honors classes, that i could start college early, ect. Really just be certain that you know who you are, and what you're capable of, then don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

erm, this was way longer than i wanted it to be, sorry, its just kinda hard to get my point across with few words... heh...

 

[misskitty]

A wise person once told me "attention will get you teachers". Do you understand this?

After hearing this i never again paid a dime to get the best instruction in the world. I went to some of the best schools on grants provided in part by the professors themselves.

So work hard, but do not worry too much.

That is some of the best advice I have heard yet. Sir, thank you very much. I have had many teachers give me advice, there are few I remember. This shall be one of them.

I do indeed know that by showing your teachers your attention they will want to teach you and help you achieve your full potential. I know because Ihave many years of experience at it, starting from my first year in primary school to my junior year, now.

I can remeber that. Thank you.

 

[misskitty]

Gale, suddenly I feel so much better to know that there are people out there who I can relate to. I TOTALLY get where you're comming from. I've had quite the uphill battle this year, (as you know), and I've been feeling stressed and depressed. Thanks for typing that because it really uplifted me.

Data, thanks for what you typed. It was good to be on the receiving end of advice rather than the giving part...when do you learn to take you own GD advice?

Zach, the MIT essay prompts are a big help considering I still couldn't find them. You just cut my worry down a size.

It really makes me feel much more secure and at ease knowing there are people who have the same worries about the same things. Especially knowing someone elses had/s a gudiance counselor who told them they will amount to nothing. ( Gale) This advice youu guys are giving is excellent. I'm almost tempted to ask one of the administrators to set up a new Sticky thread for college advice...this should go to everyone who is applying or about to apply to colleges...I certainly am not the last student who worries profusley about such matters. You are all wonderful.

 

[Gale]

I've actually talked to a few people who really stress about college and GPAs and all that stuff, and really, the stress totally sucks, cause its not even productive, it just makes people tweak out. I'm at least glad that the stupid stuff i went through helps me to talk to other people about it. People need to understand that sucess depends on a variety of factors, and even though throughout school they tell you that your grades and test scores are the most important factors, they aren't, really. There are reasons some do well on tests, others do poor, some have good grades, others don't. The important thing is that you know why you've got the scores you've got, and that you can explain it to people. Even if you have a high GPA, colleges still want to know why, what you did, the process is what matters.

On a side note, and i think its important to say, but again, there are a lot of factors for sucess. We all learn different ways, and the most important thing is that you accept who you are, your learning style and everything else, and learn how to work with it best. I know there are a lot of kids out there who work really hard for their grades and still don't have the highest GPAs and that its frustrating to see other people brease by. but really, there are so many other important aspects of life, don't stress.

and ya... guidance counselors aren't payed to like you... don't let anyone convince you that you aren't good enough.

 

[juvenal]

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer - but there are no easy platitudes or solutions, because life in itself is complex. Every person has different personalities, interests, goals, abilities, and external circumstances like money, family, geography, etc. Advice that is great for one person may be totally irrelevant or useless for another. I could say: "Don't worry, do X [not the drug ], and everything will work out OK" - but I'd be lying because things don't always work out great, despite our best efforts.

We can offer you our understanding and sympathy though. Life can be stressful and rough sometimes. If you can set realistic goals for yourself - that's for the best - but you are who you are, and it's not always easy to be less ambitious.

But you will find as you get older and change, that things that were important to you at one stage in your life becomes insignificant at another stage. That is not to say that decisions and actions you make now don't have a major impact later on in life, because they can.

 

[Andromeda321]

My little story, as long as everyone is sharing theirs...
I have never been that great a student. My grades are good enough to get by, as in no one's going to look at them and worry I haven't learned anything, but they're never going to make me stand out of the crowd. Yet despite it all everyone assumes I am one of those kids who makes the honor roll, asks me for advice on whatever problems crop up, and since I give their problems my best shot they'll come back later for more advice. Even more interesting is the fact that many a prof who knows my transcript's details full well has asked me to work with them in their research despite being a first year student.
I used to half-wonder why this was until I mentioned it in passing to a friend, who responded by telling me that I am the type of student who is in college because I like doing all the learning, not because I want to use it to do something else, and people notice. Upon reflection I think she's right: one of my guilty pleasures of university life is going to physics colloquiums every week, for example, despite being the only undergraduate on occasion. It's also worth mentioning that all the profs who have asked me to work with them have also noticed me at the colloquiums!
Life is a weird thing and you never know where it's going to take you: some places will be awesome and some places are not ones you'd want to be. But when you make sure to not get your schooling get in the way of your education it all becomes much more enjoyable!

 

[motai]

However, he spent too much time on his own projects and experiments. He went to a local university. Not a bad one.

Im in this situation as well. Frankly, I find college applications a real nuiscance, id much rather be learning new things than filling out forms and forms and more forms.

Grades may get you through high school, but only understanding will get you through life.

Yeah, unfortunately high school sucks at this. I am one of the few who actually wants to learn the material for the sake of learning it, and even then I don't have the highest scores (because invariably I do make mistakes). It just seems like right now, in high school, understanding the material isn't nearly as astounding as "Wow! A 4.0 and 5's on the AP exams!" In a way I feel left out, and I often stress over when I finally will be in an atmosphere that embraces learning, instead of trivial banalities such as who got the highest score for what. Like for instance, I see these people getting awards, they are awesome at answering questions but never give second-thought to the inner mechanisms behind what they are answering. They never seem to want to talk to me about the philosophies behind it, or anything else for that matter regarding the subject. One time, one of them actually said to me "Why are you even asking that question" when I asked my calc teacher becuase I was curious in what might happen if a solid of revolution had a non-linear axis.

I just want to feel occsionally that my philosophy towards actually understanding the material is justified and at least partly recognized by others, because right now in the high school environment, it isn't, and I am the only one in my class who seems to realize it.

It seems to me that the entire grade/test score fiasco is trying to instill one type of value in a "successful student", that being that those who score the best on tests will invariably succeed while everyone else who doesn't do as well (such as myself) on these tests will be left behind and will never be able to learn any of the higher-level interesting material because they are "not smart enough." That can be pretty difficult to handle at times.

Even if I do go to a smaller state university, I don't care anymore. I just want all of this to get over with so I can actually start learning something and not waste anymore of my time trudging through forms and applications. In the end, I will find my own success. It may not be at the "best university" or anything like that, but my passion for understanding will keep me going no matter what.

 

[Andromeda321]

I think the idea behind the whole grading system is let's face it, if there wasn't the threat of failure perpetually looming most kids would get incredibly apathetic incredibly quickly and not learn anything, nor would they ever get the skills you get from hard work. It's just that everything comes with a price and in this case the price is too much rote memorization, which doesn't help anyone that much, and frustration on the part of ppl who will learn just to learn.
It's times like these I'm reminded of one of Richard Feynman's stories about when he was in Brazil and discovered none of the kids who were going to become "scientists" knew anything that wasn't force-fed to them. He then flat-out told the Brazilians that unless they changed this they will never be good in science. Now I don't think American academia is at that level (a few other countries come to mind first), but I still sometimes worry over what's to become of us.

 

[misskitty]

There's a little something for everyone here:

I'm just going to go down the list in no particular order,

For Gale: When I read your post (#55), I couldn't help but think to myself: That is so true its ridiculous. Stress is a huge problem for many high school students who are looking towards what they want to do after high school. Adults put so much pressure on us to know everything that we are going to do, how were going to do it and pay for it, not to mention where we are going to live, work, and get ourselves from point A to point B. After high school, your grades do nothing for you. It's hard not to stress about them when there are a million and one things you need to be thinking about and decide how to get them all accomplished and done properly. Your comment about stress is very true. It does nothing for you, but people still manage to convince teens otherwise so they work themselves into the ground. They are burnt out before they even graduate. Its really sad.

For Juvenal: Your comment isn't depressing hon. Its a reminder reality still exsists even though there are many times I would like to forget it does. It's true: what you experience in life and how you cope with it shape you as a person. At one point or another I've wished someone could tell me what to do and how to do it because its difficult. I don't/didn't want to do it but I went through with it because I had to. Nobody ever said life would be a cakewalk, you just reminded me of that fact. Life happens, deal with it.

For Mortai: I understand you completely! I have the same mentality about the education situation. Most of the time, the responce I get when I ask a question like the one you used as an example, is "See me after class. I want to talk to you." When I meet with the teacher, they basically look at me like I have nine heads and I'm completely daft for asking...usually they never actually answer my question. Some of the teachers have a horrible view on their jobs...they ar there to teach what's in the text. Nothing More, Nothing less. I thought the job of a teacher was to help you learn about the world, how it works, the people in it, why thing happen, what happened to make other things happen as well as answer the questions that aren't in the book so you can expand your knowledge. Also, my situation is ridiculouly similar to yours, the one you mentioned in the third paragraph of your post. Don't fret, you're not alone.

For Andromeda: I agree with your last post (the first one too ). It does seem like that is the only purpose of the grading system. I'll tell you that I think its aweful! I moved from one school to another before I hit high school. The whole district had a different system than the one I was used to. I had a 10 point grading scale (you know: 90-100 = A, 80-90 = B, etc.). The new school has a 7 point scale. Which does nothing but convince some of the brightest students (most of them are friends of mine, not CLOSE but still friends) they continually work themselves into the ground because they feel there is no other way to suceed. That's not what school is about at all!
Your first post also goes back to something someone (I don't remember who! I'm sorry! ) had said earlier. It was along the lines of paying attention and working towards your potential and trying your best will get the attention of your teachers. Rather than the student who has the highest grades and doesn't care enough to try. Thats what I thought of when I read your first post. Hard work and perserverance go further than just getting the answers right. By the way, could you please explain what a colloquium is? I have no clue what it is. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, my dictionary doesn't really provide a good definition of what it means. :blush: