Stretched spring -find coeff of friction

  • Thread starter mujadeo
  • Start date
  • #1
103
0
stretched spring --find coeff of friction

Homework Statement


A relaxed spring with spring constant k = 70 N/m is stretched a distance di = 66 cm and held there. A block of mass M = 10 kg is attached to the spring. The spring is then released from rest and contracts, dragging the block across a rough horizontal floor until it stops without passing through the relaxed position, at which point the spring is stretched by an amount df = di/7


Homework Equations


7What is the coefficient of kinetic friction µk between the block and the floor?


The Attempt at a Solution


This problem is a problem for me.
i know about spring constants and friction but cant visualize where to start?

I know:
M= 10kg
df = .094m
Fs = .09 * 70 = 6.3N
N = 9.8*10= 98N

dont know
µk (µk = Fk/N)

Also i know (obviously) that block stops because µk force must be greater than the spring constant force.

thanks for any help
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
berkeman
Mentor
60,438
10,752
Fun problem. I don't know the answer right off the bat, but the way I'd approach a problem like this is to initially break it into understandable segments. Like, you know the initial force on the block from the spring and its mass, so what would be the possible accelerations for the block initially based on the mu values? And if you were going to set up a differential equation for the instantaneous velocity of the block based on the things that you are given, what would that equation look like? And given that instantaneous differential equation, how would you integrate or solve for the motion versus time, based on the mu value? And given that and the answer that you are given for the final V=0 position, how can you then solve for the mu?
 
  • #3
learningphysics
Homework Helper
4,099
6
I'd use the work-energy theorem... The final energy - initial energy = work done by non-conservative forces (ie work done by friction).
 
  • #4
103
0
this is what i did but its wrong sumhow.

Fsp = -K delta x
Fk = mu N

so i equated equations

-K delta x = mu N

mu = -K delta s / N

mu = -70(.094) / (10*9.8)

mu = .067

=wrong????
 
  • #5
learningphysics
Homework Helper
4,099
6
this is what i did but its wrong sumhow.

Fsp = -K delta x
Fk = mu N

so i equated equations

-K delta x = mu N

mu = -K delta s / N

mu = -70(.094) / (10*9.8)

mu = .067

=wrong????

That gives the coefficient of static friction, not kinetic.
 
  • #6
103
0
coeff of static and kinetic use same formula dont they?
Fk = mu*N
Fs = mu*N
 
  • #7
103
0
oh so whole picture is wrong
i am looking at it like : equate forces, then when they become equal (and opposit) that is mu-max for static.\
should be..
 
  • #8
learningphysics
Homework Helper
4,099
6
coeff of static and kinetic use same formula dont they?
Fk = mu*N
Fs = mu*N

There are 2 different mu's... mustatic and mukinetic
 
  • #9
103
0
so is kinetic coeff, --get that from KE=.5mv^2 somehow?
 
  • #10
learningphysics
Homework Helper
4,099
6
oh so whole picture is wrong
i am looking at it like : equate forces, then when they become equal (and opposit) that is mu-max for static.\
should be..

Yes. To get mu-kinetic, you need to use work-energy...
 
  • #11
learningphysics
Homework Helper
4,099
6
so is kinetic coeff, --get that from KE=.5mv^2 somehow?

You don't need that... what's the initial mechical energy of the system (includes all kinetic and potential energies)... what's the final mechanical energy of the system... It starts at rest and ends at rest so the kinetic energies are 0. There is kinetic energy in between, but we don't need to worry about that... we just need to worry about the initial and final states...

work done by friction = final mechanical energy - initial mechanical energy

From the left hand side you can get mu-kinetic.
 
Last edited:
  • #12
103
0
OK so i am equating PE of spring with force of spring??

I know its these 3 equations :

U=1/2kx^2
Fsp = -K delta x
Fk = muN

But Fsp and Fk are in in newtons and U is in Joules.
I want everything in joules to use conserv of energy??

How can i get both equations in J?
 
  • #13
learningphysics
Homework Helper
4,099
6
OK so i am equating PE of spring with force of spring??

I know its these 3 equations :

U=1/2kx^2
Fsp = -K delta x
Fk = muN

But Fsp and Fk are in in newtons and U is in Joules.
I want everything in joules to use conserv of energy??

How can i get both equations in J?

Just use the first equation for now... what's the initial energy, and what's the final energy?
 
  • #14
learningphysics
Homework Helper
4,099
6
OK so i am equating PE of spring with force of spring??

I know its these 3 equations :

U=1/2kx^2
Fsp = -K delta x
Fk = muN

But Fsp and Fk are in in newtons and U is in Joules.
I want everything in joules to use conserv of energy??

How can i get both equations in J?

Work done = Force * distance... which is N*m which is the same as J.
 

Related Threads on Stretched spring -find coeff of friction

Replies
3
Views
964
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • Last Post
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • Last Post
Replies
2
Views
722
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
17K
  • Last Post
Replies
10
Views
4K
Top