Stuck on algebra to N2L solution

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around an algebraic problem related to Newton's Second Law (N2L) as presented in a physics textbook problem. The original poster expresses difficulty in manipulating the provided equations to derive the friction force equation.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore how to transition from the initial N2L equations to the final equation for friction. There are attempts to equate accelerations and solve for friction, with some participants questioning the relationship between the slab and block.

Discussion Status

Some guidance has been offered regarding algebraic manipulation of the equations, including suggestions to solve for acceleration and substitute values. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, particularly concerning the sliding condition of the block on the slab.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working with equations that include subscripts for different masses and forces, which may complicate the algebraic manipulation. The original poster has provided links to images of the problem and solution for reference.

NamaeKana
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I already understand the problem, but am having trouble with the algebra for textbook Fund of Physics Solutions, Halliday, 8e, Ch6 Prob 34. Copied here

http://i56.tinypic.com/20uwhw4.jpg

I've been staring at this solution to N2L for hours and can't figure out how to go from the top 4 N2L equations to the bottom equation for f (friction). I tried making both 'as' and 'ab' as 'a' but keep geting back to the orig equation.

Just give me a hint, please...
 
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o.k., i typed it here, but it's cryptic with (subscripts)

these four N2L equations:

-f = m(s) a(s)
F(ns) -F(Nb) -m(s)g = 0
f - F = m(b) a(b)
F(Nb) - m(b) g

are shown in the soln to resolve to

f = ( m(s) F ) / ( (m(s) + m(b) )

where do i begin ?
 
How are the slab and block related?
 
oh ! now i see. it's checking if the block on top is sliding on the slab. not deriving it.
 
NamaeKana said:
o.k., i typed it here, but it's cryptic with (subscripts)

these four N2L equations:

-f = m(s) a(s)
F(ns) -F(Nb) -m(s)g = 0
f - F = m(b) a(b)
F(Nb) - m(b) g

are shown in the sol'n to resolve to

f = ( m(s) F ) / ( (m(s) + m(b) )

where do i begin ?

What have you tried?

The solution says that as = ab, they drop the subscripts & simply call them both "a".

Solve the 1st equation for a: a=\frac{-f}{m_s}\ .

Solve the 3rd equation for a: a=\frac{f-F}{m_b}\ .

Set the right hand sides equal to each other & solve for f .

Added in Edit:

It's probably easier Algebra-wise to do the following.

Solve the 1st equation for f:  f = -ms·a

Plug this into the 3rd equation:  -ms·a -F = mb·a

Solve for a, then plug that back into the equation: f = -ms·a
 
Last edited:
thanks. i wouldn't have figured that out by myself in a millions years ;-). i get the logic, solve 1 & 3 for a, then take a and plug back into 1.
 

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