Stuck with a B.S Physics and no job

[ceyhanb]

I graduated with a B.S in Physics this passing May. I applied to many graduate schools for nanoscience, however only one accepted me "provisionally". My GPA was lower than a 3.0 (2.8). So, now I'm stuck with a B.S in Physics and I'm not going to graduate school (I can't afford it). I really have a passion for Physics, and I want to have a scientific career in this field of science. Any advice?

I'm studying for the Physics GRE, hoping that if I get over 50%; this will offset the low GPA.

 

[ice109]

lol shouldn't you be shooting for much much higher than 50%

 

[Pengwuino]

Get a job then reapply. Or go to the school that accepted you and work while you're in school.

 

[ceyhanb]

lol shouldn't you be shooting for much much higher than 50%

I talked to the admissions officer at one school near my home, and he said that if i do 50% of higher it will offset my GPA.

 

[ice109]

i don't think you get it. right now you're an average candidate because of your average gpa. getting an average gre score does not average in with your average gpa well.

 

[Pengwuino]

unless he's trying to get into an average university! :)

 

[ice109]

unless he's trying to get into an average university! :)

meh even average universities think highly of themselves. at the least they're trying to improve their ranking because no one wants to remain average forever except this guy i guess.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes but average universities can't get the students they think they're "worthy" of.

 

[ice109]

Yes but average universities can't get the students they think they're "worthy" of.

yea so they resort to the best foreign students. even if they can't get those the average eastern european or asian student is worth 2 americans.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

i don't think you get it. right now you're an average candidate because of your average gpa. getting an average gre score does not average in with your average gpa well.

The GRE is a scaled test. A raw score of 50% would put you in around the top 33% (depending on the test). For the GRE a "pass" (i.e. the score that half the takers got higher than) is around 39%. Only 2% of takers get higher than 85%

 

[arunma]

There are a few businesses that would accept someone with a BS in physics. When I was in undergrad I applied to the Technology Leadership Program at Target (i.e. corporate Target, not the cashier kind of job). I actually made it to the final round of interviews. Maybe you'd consider something like this. I vaguely remember something about a 3.0 minimum GPA, but I'm not sure, and it's still worth applying anyway.

 

[Pengwuino]

The GRE is a scaled test. A raw score of 50% would put you in around the top 33% (depending on the test). For the GRE a "pass" (i.e. the score that half the takers got higher than) is around 39%. Only 2% of takers get higher than 85%

Most college admission discussions assume you're talking about the percentile and not the raw score.

 

[mal4mac]

High school physics teaching?

 

[Vanadium 50]

The title here seems a bit misleading. The complaint seems not to be that one can't get a job with a BS in physics. It's that with low grades, low test scores and a very narrow focus of what one wants to do in grad school, the OP is having a hard time getting in.

 

[cristo]

Isn't there a more fundamental issue here: is someone with a 2.8 GPA really best suited to graduate school? Unless there is a pretty good reason for getting a low grade, surely it would be in the best interests of the OP to be more realistic, and look beyond grad school.

 

[ceyhanb]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies!

My lower GPA was due to slacking off in my first two years in college, resulting in becoming behind in a lot of the mathematics. My GPA was an average of 2.0 these two years :( I'm one of those guys that has no problem with the physical concepts, but due to my laziness in my first two years, i have many "gaps" in my maths skills, such as Fourier analysis (I'm still struggling with this concept). But when I NEED to use it, I learn it...I mean, I know how to USE Fourier series, however I don't REALLY understand them. Many of these 'gaps' were filled in my senior year, with my advanced Quantum Mechanics course.

I am extremely passionate about physics, I read my subscription to "Physics Today" every Sunday, and keep up to date with what's going on in the world of science. I love what my studies in Physics have taught me about our Universe, and now I am ready and anxious to narrow my studies and apply that knowledge. The heart of my curiosity owes itself to science, not some field that has nothing to do with it.

I've been studying practice exams for the GRE for the past month now. I focus on a problem, and make sure I understand the correct answer as well as the incorrect ones. I have not yet taken a full practice exam. It seems to me that most of the GRE problems test 'physical' concepts rather than the mathematics. It seems that if I know the important concepts for the topics, I have a good chance of "guessing" the answers or definitely eliminating a few.

Although some "gaps" in my mathematical knowledge exist, I believe that I can do well in graduate school, because of my ability to look at the "bigger picture" in physics. I have good discipline and I always finish what I start. I also have no problem learning the maths as it comes up in context.

So, I guess I should re-word my question:

With a B.S Degree in Physics and an average GPA, no graduate school, what could I be doing to get on the right path for a career using my scientific background?

Thanks!

 

[cipher42]

If you are looking for a career to use your scientific background, there are definitely options out there. Have you considered science writing (especially if you enjoy reading Physics Today)? There are quite a few industry sectors that hire people with a background in physics too: the defense contractors, engineering, etc. Though sadly the current economy has done a number on those job markets.

Though if you really want that graduate degree, then it seems like you are on the right track. There's nothing you can do about that low GPA at this point, you if you can show admission's committees that you definitely know your physics by getting a decent Physics GRE score, then you definitely have a shot. It seems like most schools mid-range schools will over-look one area of your application if the rest of them are strong (letters, personal statement, GRE, etc). Make some money doing whatever you can and keep on studying.

And to the nay-sayers, I think a 50% might just be good enough (though obviously the higher the better). This isn't like getting into undergrad where everyone and they're dog took whatever standardized test your looking at. If you show a run-of-the-mill university that you are better at physics than 50% of the other physics majors taking the test (not to mention that many of them aren't even from America...so a 50-percentile definitely equates to beating considerably more than 50% of American students) I think you'll at least have a chance.

Best of luck!

 

[Vanadium 50]

And to the nay-sayers, I think a 50% might just be good enough (though obviously the higher the better). This isn't like getting into undergrad where everyone and they're dog took whatever standardized test your looking at. If you show a run-of-the-mill university that you are better at physics than 50% of the other physics majors taking the test (not to mention that many of them aren't even from America...so a 50-percentile definitely equates to beating considerably more than 50% of American students) I think you'll at least have a chance.

There's the other side of the calculation.

There are of order 7000 physics grads a year. About half take the GRE and somewhere between 1000 and 1500 students enter graduate school. Someone somewhere in grad school has to be the worst student at the worst university, and that student, whoever he is, is somewhere in the top quarter of physics BS grads.

 

[cipher42]

There's the other side of the calculation.

There are of order 7000 physics grads a year. About half take the GRE and somewhere between 1000 and 1500 students enter graduate school. Someone somewhere in grad school has to be the worst student at the worst university, and that student, whoever he is, is somewhere in the top quarter of physics BS grads.

If those number are right, then my intuition stands corrected. Thanks for the numbers, V.

 

[j93]

Isn't there a more fundamental issue here: is someone with a 2.8 GPA really best suited to graduate school? Unless there is a pretty good reason for getting a low grade, surely it would be in the best interests of the OP to be more realistic, and look beyond grad school.

I don't understand 2.8 is slightly below average. If youre willing to nonchalantly discourage for a 2.8 then one must do the same for the PGRE and those that score below average on that exam. I would understand if you used the argument that graduate school admissions are competitive I would agree but to say that fundamentally he is bound for failure is different. I don't see if one is going to follow that logic why one can't say that if one can't score at least average on a standardized exam on mostly first year physics curriculum then why should one consider grad school.

IMHO the only reason to seriously consider a fundamental problem are for those more than two deviations from average for GPA or those that don't like conducting research or those scoring in the very very low percentiles in the PGRE.
However the amount of competition is a also source of concern.

 

[cristo]

I don't understand 2.8 is slightly below average. If youre willing to nonchalantly discourage for a 2.8 then one must do the same for the PGRE and those that score below average on that exam. I would understand if you used the argument that graduate school admissions are competitive I would agree but to say that fundamentally he is bound for failure is different. I don't see if one is going to follow that logic why one can't say that if one can't score at least average on a standardized exam on mostly first year physics curriculum then why should one consider grad school.

I don't really understand what you mean by the last sentence, since it doesn't make sense to me, but what I gather is that you are supporting the notion of a below average student going to grad school. If this is true, then yes, I disagree with you: what evidence is there, if a student cannot obtain average marks in their undergrad degree, that they will go on to excel in grad school?

 

[j93]

If this is true, then yes, I disagree with you: what evidence is there, if a student cannot obtain average marks in their undergrad degree, that they will go on to excel in grad school?

I make it a point that when given a number N that represents the average I don't assume the distribution looks like N, N, N, N, N.

 

[Dzyubak]

For many grad schools, you don't need the subject GRE, only the general one. Perhaps, you should take some practice tests and see which one goes better for you? If your physics practice tests go well, take the actual one. If they don't, just take the general GRE.
I hardly every heard of people getting a job with a BS in Physics. It is too vague. I agree that you should get a temporary job and work on getting into grad school. Also, keep your mind open about different graduate school programs. You could be working on robots with either Electrical or Mechanical engineering. So, if one program is not working out, you could end up doing the same thing if you approach it from a different angle.

 

[bpsbps]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies!

With a B.S Degree in Physics and an average GPA, no graduate school, what could I be doing to get on the right path for a career using my scientific background?

Consider an MS in an engineering field. Many smaller engineering schools take "OK" students for MS degrees if the student looks motivated to work hard. In the worst case you can add debt and fund your own studies for two years.

If you consider this path you should know that it will be difficult because you will be studying with students that mostly didn't slack-off and have an above average command of mathematics. Of course if you're successful you'll be rewarded by being employable.

 

[Locrian]

yea so they resort to the best foreign students. even if they can't get those the average eastern european or asian student is worth 2 americans.

Nonsense. Grad schools love native students because the quality of their english is good enough to be TA's. It's easy to fill up your labs with foreign students that the world never has to see, but that still leaves you with slots that need filling. And nobody actually likes filling those slots, so having students who can't do better around has some vlaue. I sometimes wonder if that's the real reason uni departments have theorists; so they can have grad student theorists who don't have RAs.

If I were the OP, I'd use that to my advantage and stress my teaching skills on all apps and in all interviews.

 

[llauren84]

My lower GPA was due to slacking off in my first two years in college, resulting in becoming behind in a lot of the mathematics. My GPA was an average of 2.0 these two years :( I'm one of those guys that has no problem with the physical concepts, but due to my laziness in my first two years, i have many "gaps" in my maths skills, such as Fourier analysis (I'm still struggling with this concept). But when I NEED to use it, I learn it...I mean, I know how to USE Fourier series, however I don't REALLY understand them. Many of these 'gaps' were filled in my senior year, with my advanced Quantum Mechanics course.

If many of the so-called gaps have been filled in and you are reviewing all of your material, then it will most likely show in your grade in that test. I suggest you do your best to fill in all gaps and not just many. Also, posting questions to this forum will definitely help with whatever gaps you still need to fill in.

 

[NotoriousNick]

So you slacked off, and now you want a freebie eh?

You sound like a true American! It's hard no to sound sarcastic, but that is the true american spirit when it comes to academia and mathematics in this country. We want our carrots pre sliced, and we want the government to pay for them too.


Here's the deal. Obviously you slacking off in college while your parents are paying for it is pretty typical. It's actually, extremely typical. However, most of those who slack stay away from physics, because it requires a lot of hard work and dedication. So you're 1 in a 100 here buddy.

However, if you were motivated enough to complete your physics degree, you probably will be motivated enough to pursue something serious in your career. You'll just probably continue to have bouts of laziness in whatever you do.

Certainly, as you know, eventually you will come across something that looks like it's worth pursuing. And when you realize you have to pay your own way, etc., like for real, you'll get serious and put your nose to the grindstone to work your butt off.

Until then, you can flounder around with a bunch of hard working scientists and engineers, the most disciplined of all disciplines, on a physics forum, and ask them what you should do when you grow up.


My advice: 1. PhD in Physics is more than likely way more dedication than most people really want to give

2. If a bachelors in physics was trying to you, so will be a PhD
3. However, you can do it, and more than likely will do it, if you decided to do it.
4. Screw physics, go get an MBA, and you can make 3x as much as the physicists you hire to do the dirty work for you.

Good Luck Slacker.

 

[bpresgrove]

Have you considered a job in the nuclear industry? Having been a part of it now for about 10 years in both DOE and now the medical field I can say they jobs are plentiful. There are several DOE sites that could use physics grads and are looking for them. The commercial nuclear field is also in demand for technical grads as well. Dont loose heart there are jobs out there just keep looking.

 

[siyphsc]

I know someone that got into a top 20 physics grad school with a 2.6 GPA while scoring in the 50th percentile on the PGRE, but they had 3 publications by the time they got their Bachelors. Perhaps you can stick around your school and try to do free work for a professor.

When it comes to the school that accepted you provisionally, you could always apply for FASFA. They will offer you subsidized loans to cover your first year...when your provisional status is taken away, you will most likely be given a TA position.

 

[ks_physicist]

There's the other side of the calculation.

There are of order 7000 physics grads a year. About half take the GRE and somewhere between 1000 and 1500 students enter graduate school. Someone somewhere in grad school has to be the worst student at the worst university, and that student, whoever he is, is somewhere in the top quarter of physics BS grads.

I think that calculation makes too many assumptions. You assume that the top 50% of graduating bachelor's physicists take the GRE. You assume that the top 50% of those who take it go on to graduate school.

 

[txmick]

If you're talking about a career as an alternative to grad school, I'd offer:

1. finding a job with a physics BS/BA is very tough in a recession; I tried in '92. Engineers have jobs designed for their education (or visa-versa)--it's practically a professional degree. Recruiters and hiring managers need to work much harder with a physics grad. You need to be an outstanding interview.
2. Not knowing which part of the country you're from makes advice difficult because "physics jobs" aren't available uniformly throughout the country.
3. Get a government job. The requirement for being a citizen eliminates some of the toughest competition. Since the real expertise resides with the contractors, you don't actually need to know much.

Good Luck

 

[twofish-quant]

So, now I'm stuck with a B.S in Physics and I'm not going to graduate school (I can't afford it).

Most Ph.D. programs have TA/RA'ships so that afford the degree is not an issue.

I really have a passion for Physics, and I want to have a scientific career in this field of science. Any advice?

Get a job (any job) in a university, national lab, or high tech company. Start networking. If you can find any openings as a lab technician or a physics tutor that would help.

I'm studying for the Physics GRE, hoping that if I get over 50%; this will offset the low GPA.

But if the problem is cost of grad school, how is that going to help? The other thing is to look over your statement of purpose and see if you can rewrite it so that you can get in somewhere. (For example, in your SOP, you should have mentioned why your GPA was low, and pointed out that the recent grades were higher.)

 

[rubrix]

My lower GPA was due to slacking off in my first two years in college, resulting in becoming behind in a lot of the mathematics. My GPA was an average of 2.0 these two years :(

some universities only care for your last two years or so. I know our Physics grad admission requires 2.75 GPA for last 60 hours of undergrad.also, like someone said GRE in Physics is not required by some universities. Some are okay if you provide them general GRE.