Sturm-Liouville operator, operating on what?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Sturm-Liouville operator and its properties, particularly focusing on the definition of the function space in which it operates. Participants explore the nature of the operator as a linear operator on a Hilbert space, the implications of boundary conditions, and the relationship between the operator and the spaces involved, including issues of completeness and differentiability.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants seek a rigorous definition of the function space for the Sturm-Liouville operator, questioning whether it is defined on continuous or square-integrable functions.
  • There is a proposal that the operator ##\hat{L}## acts on the space of twice differentiable functions subject to homogeneous boundary conditions.
  • Concerns are raised about whether the output of the operator ##\hat{L}## remains within the same function space, particularly regarding the boundary conditions and differentiability of the resulting function.
  • Some participants clarify that ##\hat{L}## is not necessarily an endomorphism on the space of functions but rather maps to a larger space, specifically ##L_{2}[a, b]##.
  • Discussion includes the implications of defining operators in infinite-dimensional spaces and the conditions under which they can be considered self-adjoint.
  • One participant notes that the space defined by the boundary conditions may not be a complete Hilbert space, suggesting the use of Sobolev spaces instead.
  • There is a mention of singular Sturm-Liouville problems on infinite intervals, which adds complexity to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the operator ##\hat{L}##, particularly regarding its classification as an endomorphism and the implications of boundary conditions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the definitions and properties of the function spaces involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential incompleteness of the defined function space and the need for further exploration of the properties of operators in infinite-dimensional spaces. The discussion also touches on the distinction between finite and infinite intervals in relation to the Sturm-Liouville problem.

HeisenbergsDog
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Consider a general Sturm-Liouiville problem

##[p(x) y'(x) ]' + [q(x) + \lambda \omega (x) ] y(x) = 0 ##

##\quad \Leftrightarrow \quad \hat{L} y(x) = \lambda \omega(x) y(x) \quad \text{with} \quad \hat{L} y(x) = -[p(x) y'(x)]' - q(x) y(x) ##

where ##p(x), p'(x), q(x), \omega(x)## are real-valued functions, continuous on the interval ##[a,b]##, and ##p(x), \omega(x) \geq 0 \, \forall \,x \in [a,b]##

with the boundary conditions
##\alpha_1 y(a) + \alpha_2 y'(a) = 0 ##
##\beta_1 y(b) + \beta_2 y'(b) = 0##

where ##\alpha_1, \alpha_2 \in \mathbb{R}##, not both zero, and ##\beta_1, \beta_2 \in \mathbb{R}##, not both zero.

In the various litterature it is claimed that ##\hat{L}## is a linear operator on a Hilbert space of functions defined by the boundary conditions. Can someone give me a rigorous definition of the function space in question?

For ##\hat{L}## to be a linear operator, surely it must be an endomorphism on some vector space, right? This is where I get confused.

Suppose the boundary conditions are ##f(a)=f(b)=0##. This supposedly defines a Hilbert space (but for which functions? continuous? square-integrable?). Next, if ##\hat{L}##is an endomorphism, then the function ##\hat{L}f(x)## should be a member of that space also. Then we should have ##\hat{L}f(a) = \hat{L}f(b)##, but I don't see why this would be the case. For example, with ##f(x)## in the space, there's no reason for ##f'(x)## to be in the space.

I would like a clear definition of the Hilbert space in question, and in what sense ##\hat{L}## truly is an operator (=endomorphism) on that space.

(Bare in mind that I know very little about functional analysis and Hilbert spaces; I haven't had proper courses in these subjects yet.)

Thank you.
 
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HeisenbergsDog said:
In the various litterature it is claimed that L^\hat{L} is a linear operator on a Hilbert space of functions defined by the boundary conditions. Can someone give me a rigorous definition of the function space in question?
\hat{L} is a linear operator on the space of twice differentiable functions u(x) on the interval [a, b], subject to certain homogeneous boundary conditions (for example u(a) = 0, u(b) = 0).
HeisenbergsDog said:
I would like a clear definition of the Hilbert space in question,
The space is defined above: It is a Hilbert space with the inner product given by (u, v)=\int_{a}^{b}u(x)v(x)dx. Verifying that \hat{L} is a linear operator is not complicated (an integral is a linear operator).
 
Svein said:
... the space of twice differentiable functions u(x) on the interval [a, b], subject to certain homogeneous boundary conditions (for example u(a) = 0, u(b) = 0).

This I can buy. Perfectly good vector space. Let's call it ##V##.

Svein said:
Verifying that \hat{L} is a linear operator is not complicated (an integral is a linear operator).

Here I get into trouble. Let ##u \in V##. Then ##u## is twice differentiable and ##u(a)=u(b)=0##. We have no other restrictions on ##u##. Now let ##\hat{L}## be defined as above. If ##\hat{L}## were to be an operator, then we must have ##\hat{L} u \in V \,\, \forall \,u \in V##. But ##\hat{L}u = -[pu']' - qu =: v## and I fail to see why this function ##v## should be in ##V##. The function ##v## need not satisfy ##v(a)=v(b)=0##, or even be differentiable?
 
HeisenbergsDog said:
If L^\hat{L} were to be an operator, then we must have L^uVuV\hat{L} u \in V \,\, \forall \,u \in V.
Why? I did not state that \hat{L}: V\rightarrow V. In reality \hat{L}: V\rightarrow L_{2}[a, b].
 
Svein said:
Why? I did not state that \hat{L}: V\rightarrow V. In reality \hat{L}: V\rightarrow L_{2}[a, b].

Oh ok. So ##\hat{L}## is in general not an endomorphism.

I thought the term "linear operator" on ##V## was the same as endomorphism on ##V##. That's the definition I've seen on wikipedia, and in Axler's linear algebra book, among others.

Is the same true for "operators" in quantum mechanics? They are not endomorphisms either?

For finite-dimensional vector spaces, eigenvalues and eigenvectors are defined only for endomorphisms. So I get confused about this in the infinite case. I really need to take a functional analysis course, but that's a few years ahead I'm afraid.
 
HeisenbergsDog said:
Oh ok. So L^\hat{L} is in general not an endomorphism.
Well, that depends on how you look at it. Since V\subset L_{2}[a, b] and the inner product is defined on the whole of L_{2}, you have \hat{L}: V\subset L_{2}[a, b]\rightarrow L_{2}[a, b].
 
Svein said:
Well, that depends on how you look at it. Since V\subset L_{2}[a, b] and the inner product is defined on the whole of L_{2}, you have \hat{L}: V\subset L_{2}[a, b]\rightarrow L_{2}[a, b].

I see. But ##V \subset L_2[a,b]## only if ##a,b## are finite, right? That is, we get into trouble if the interval is all of ##\mathbb{R}##.
 
HeisenbergsDog said:
I see. But VL2[a,b]V \subset L_2[a,b] only if a,ba,b are finite, right? That is, we get into trouble if the interval is all of R\mathbb{R}.
Well, L^{2}<-\infty, \infty> is defined and exists, but the Sturm-Liouville problem is defined only on a finite interval (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm–Liouville_theory).
 
There is still the possibility of having a singular SL problem on an infinite interval. This is also mentioned on the wiki page.
 
  • #10
Orodruin said:
There is still the possibility of having a singular SL problem on an infinite interval. This is also mentioned on the wiki page.
Yes, but that is too complicated for a first-timer.
 
  • #11
Ok, so thank you Svein for making me understand this a little better. I'm not quite there yet, though.

In linear algebra (with finite dimensional vector spaces) we define an endomorphism to be self-adjoint if <u,Lv> = <Lu,v>. It doesn't make sense for an operator ##T: U\to V## to be self-adjoint.

So when we say ##\hat{L}## is self-adjoint, then surely we must regard it as an endomorphism, right?
 
  • #12
HeisenbergsDog said:
In linear algebra (with finite dimensional vector spaces) we define an endomorphism to be self-adjoint if <u,Lv> = <Lu,v>. It doesn't make sense for an operator T:UVT: U\to V to be self-adjoint.
Why not? Especially if U⊂V...
 
  • #13
Svein said:
Why not? Especially if U⊂V...
If ##U,V## are finite dimensional inner product spaces and ##T:U\to V## a linear map, then by definition, ##T^\dagger: V \to U##. Thus if ##T=T^\dagger## then we must have ##U=V##.

Suppose ##U## is a subspace of ##V##, then we may have <v,Tu> = <Tv,u> for all ##u,v \in U## so that ##T^\dagger v = Tv## for all ##v \in U##. But ##T^\dagger v \in U## for all ##v \in V## (and hence for all ##v \in U##) so that ##Tv \in U## for all ##v \in U##. Hence ##T: U \to U##.

Please prove me wrong or point out my mistake.
 
  • #14
Just a quick note: The space \{u\in C^2[a,b]\} : u(a)=u(b)=0\} with the inner product (u,v)_{L^2} = \int_a^b uv is not a Hilbert space (it is not complete). In this case we should work on a so called Sobolev space, in this case the space H_0^1(a,b) = \{u\in L^2(a,b) : u&#039;\in L^2,u(a)=u(b)=0\}. This space is a Hilbert space with the inner product given by
(u,v)_{H^1} = \int_a^b u&#039;v&#039;

You are right about the spaces being equal. I'll try to explain the definition in the infinite-dimensional case. Suppose you have an operator T: dom(T)\subset V_1\rightarrow V_2 such that dom(T) is dense in V_1 (V_1 and V_2 are Hilbert spaces). Then dom(T^*) is defined as the set of all v\in V_2 such that there exists w\in H_1 such that

(v,Tu)_{V_2} = (w,u)_{V_1},\qquad u\in dom(T)

Since dom(T) is dense, w is uniquely determined by v\in dom(T^*). We can then define the operator T^*:dom(T^*)\subset V_2 \rightarrow V_1 by T^*v := w. The pair (dom(T^*),T^*) is called the (Hilbert) adjoint of (dom(T),T) (the domain is important!).

Now, an operator T: dom(T)\subset H \rightarrow H is called symmetric (notice we have only one space H) if
(Tu,v)=(u,Tv), \qquad u,v\in dom(T).

With this, we finally define an operator (dom(T),T) to be self-adjoint if (dom(T),T)=(dom(T^*),T^*), that is, if T is symmetric and dom(T)=dom(T^*). You can prove that if a linear operator T: H \rightarrow H is continuous (as in the finite-dimensional case), then it is self-adjoint if and only if it is symmetric. In conclusion, you had the right idea, the domains must be equal.

As for the Sturm-Liouville problem, suppose we have the equation
-(pu&#039;)&#039; + qu = f, \text{ on } (a,b),

with boundary conditions u(a)=u(b)=0. It is possible to prove that for f\in L^2 there exists a solution in H_0^1 (the space I defined earlier). We can then consider the operator f\mapsto u defined from L^2 to L^2 (or in H_0^1). This is the operator we prove is self-adjoint (and with that obtain the solution to the eigenvalue problem, for instance). Let me know if you want more details, hope this helps.
 

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