Green's function and the evolution operator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition and interpretation of Green's functions, particularly in the context of differential operators and quantum mechanics. Participants explore the mathematical foundations of Green's functions and their role as propagators in quantum dynamics, addressing both general definitions and specific applications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a definition of the Green's function involving a differential operator and a delta function, questioning its consistency with another description involving quantum mechanics.
  • Another participant explains that Green's functions serve as kernels in integral transforms for solving differential equations and are interpreted as propagators in quantum mechanics.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of understanding Green's functions consistently across different applications and expresses confusion over the apparent contradiction in definitions.
  • Some participants suggest that the inclusion of time variables in the differential operator is necessary for a complete understanding of the Green's function.
  • There is a proposal to consider the Green's function in the context of the Fourier transform, leading to further mathematical exploration of its properties.
  • One participant reiterates their desire to understand the rigorous mathematical foundations of the propagator and seeks clarification on earlier points raised in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the consistency of the definitions of Green's functions, with some asserting that the definitions are not aligned while others suggest that the context of quantum mechanics provides a valid interpretation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the reconciliation of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need to clarify the specific differential equation that the Green's function is associated with, indicating that assumptions about the operator and its application may affect the interpretation of the Green's function.

  • #31
Quick correction from my previous derivation: Sign error by me, such that ##\omega = \frac{\hat{H}}{\hbar}##, which for natural unts, ##\omega = \hat{H}##.I will go through the derivation.Equation 17.21:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

| \psi_t \rangle &= e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar} \hat{H} (t-\acute{t})} | \psi_{\acute{t}} \rangle

\end{split}

\end{equation}Given:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

\omega &= \frac{\hat{H}}{\hbar}

\end{split}

\end{equation}\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

| \psi_t \rangle &= e^{-i \omega (t-\acute{t})} | \psi_{\acute{t}} \rangle

\end{split}

\end{equation}
Which is my version of the time evolution operator, ##\hat{U}(t,\acute{t})##.Equation 17.26:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

\left( i\hbar \frac{\partial}{\partial t}-E_j \right ) G_j^{+}(t,\acute{t}) &=\delta(t-\acute{t})

\end{split}

\end{equation}Where:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

G_j^{+}(t,\acute{t})&=-\frac{i}{\hbar} e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar} E_j (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t})

\end{split}

\end{equation}Such that:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

\left( i\hbar \frac{\partial}{\partial t}-E_j \right ) G_j^{+}(t,\acute{t}) &=\left( i\hbar \frac{\partial}{\partial t}-E_j \right ) \left(-\frac{i}{\hbar} e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar} E_j (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t}) \right)

\\

&=\left( \frac{\partial}{\partial t}+ \frac{i}{\hbar}E_j \right ) \left( e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar} E_j (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t}) \right)

\end{split}

\end{equation}And:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

\left( \frac{\partial}{\partial t}+ \frac{i}{\hbar}E_j \right ) \left( e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar} E_j (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t}) \right)&=\delta(t-\acute{t})

\\

-i\left( \frac{\partial}{\partial t}+ \frac{i}{\hbar}E_j \right ) \left( e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar} E_j (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t}) \right)&=-i \delta(t-\acute{t})

\\

\left(-i \frac{\partial}{\partial t}- \frac{E_j}{\hbar} \right ) \left( e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar} E_j (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t}) \right)&=-i \delta(t-\acute{t})

\end{split}

\end{equation}
Given ##\omega_j=\frac{E_j}{\hbar}## and ##\partial_t = \frac{\partial}{\partial t}##:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

\left(-i \partial_t- \omega_j \right ) \left( e^{-i \omega_j (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t}) \right)&=-i \delta(t-\acute{t})

\end{split}

\end{equation}Where:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

e^{-i \omega_j (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t})&=G_j^{+}(t,\acute{t})

\end{split}

\end{equation}Such that:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

\left(-i \partial_t- \omega_j \right ) G_j^{+}(t,\acute{t})&=-i \delta(t-\acute{t})

\end{split}

\end{equation}Again, this is the same as my derivation.Equation 17.28:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

G^+(\vec{r},t;\vec{\acute{r}},\acute{t})&=-\frac{i}{\hbar}\sum_j e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar}E_j (t-\acute{t})}\theta(t-\acute{t})u_j(\vec{r}) u_j^*(\vec{\acute{r}})

\end{split}

\end{equation}Equation 17.31:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

\left(i\hbar \frac{\partial}{\partial t} -\hat{H} \right) G^+(\vec{r},t;\vec{\acute{r}},\acute{t})&=-\frac{i}{\hbar}\sum_j \left(i\hbar \frac{\partial}{\partial t} -E_j \right) G_j^+(t-\acute{t}) u_j(\vec{r}) u_j^*(\vec{\acute{r}})

\\

&=\sum_j \delta(t-\acute{t})u_j(\vec{r}) u_j^*(\vec{\acute{r}})

\\

&=\delta(t-\acute{t})\delta^3(\vec{r}-\vec{\acute{r}})

\\

&=\delta^4(\vec{x}-\vec{\acute{x}})

\end{split}

\end{equation}Where:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

\sum_j u_j(\vec{r}) u_j^*(\vec{\acute{r}})&=\delta^3(\vec{r}-\vec{\acute{r}})

\end{split}

\end{equation}And:

\begin{equation}

\begin{split}

G^+(\vec{r},t;\vec{\acute{r}},\acute{t})&=\sum_j G_j^+(\vec{r},t;\vec{\acute{r}},\acute{t})

\\

&=\sum_j G_j^+(t-\acute{t}) u_j(\vec{r}) u_j^*(\vec{\acute{r}})

\\

&=\sum_j G_j^+(t-\acute{t})\delta^3(\vec{r}-\vec{\acute{r}})

\\

&=G^+(t-\acute{t})\delta^3(\vec{r}-\vec{\acute{r}})

\\

&=-\frac{i}{\hbar} e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar} E (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t})\delta^3(\vec{r}-\vec{\acute{r}})

\\

&=-\frac{i}{\hbar} e^{-i \omega (t-\acute{t})} \theta(t-\acute{t})\delta^3(\vec{r}-\vec{\acute{r}})

\end{split}

\end{equation}Which is the SAME expression for the Green function that I derived (assuming some algebra with ##i## and ##\hbar##, which I demonstrate above). In other words, the result is the same. Trying to distinguish my derivation from the one in the paper by asserting one involves position and the other energy in order to accept one and not the other is simply not tenable.
 
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  • #32
redtree said:
Quick correction from my previous derivation: Sign error by me, such that ω=^Hℏω=H^ℏ\omega = \frac{\hat{H}}{\hbar}, which for natural unts, ω=\hat{H}.
Regardless of the sign, it is simpy not true. It is only true on a degenerate subspace of the Hamiltonian, which you generally do not have.
 
  • #33
redtree said:
Trying to distinguish my derivation from the one in the paper by asserting one involves position and the other energy in order to accept one and not the other is simply not tenable.
It is very tenable. You get different results and your's is wrong. Not only are you assuming that the position eigenstates are energy eigenstates (they are not), you are also asserting that they all have the same energy.. The Green's function for ##t > t'## is not proportional to a delta function in space.
 

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