Suburu WRX and a Honda Accord have collided at an intesection

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a collision between a Subaru WRX and a Honda Accord at an intersection, focusing on the dynamics of the accident, including the speeds of the vehicles involved, their masses, and the skid marks left after the collision. Participants are attempting to analyze the situation using principles of physics, particularly momentum and kinetic energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using the work-kinetic energy theorem and momentum conservation to analyze the collision and the subsequent skidding. There are questions about the relevance of certain details, such as the distance of the Honda from the stop sign and its initial velocity. Some participants express uncertainty about how to incorporate all given information into their calculations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing various approaches and calculations. Some have provided guidance on using the principles of physics to determine speeds and forces involved in the collision. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, particularly regarding the initial conditions of the vehicles and the implications of the skid marks.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the ambiguity in the problem statement and the assumptions they must make, such as the initial velocity of the Honda and the conditions under which the collision occurred. There is also mention of the visibility of the vehicles and the implications of the skid marks for understanding the dynamics of the crash.

brightesthalo
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A suburu WRX and a Honda Accord have collided at an intesection. The suburu was initially traveling north. The honda was traveling west, about to initiate a right hand turn.

Obsercation of the scene of the accident and interviews with witnesses yeilds the following information:
1. The driver of the honda was a 52 yr old man of average build
2. The driver of the suburu was a 24yr old man of average build
3. After the impact the two vehicles traveled as one object
4. A witness states that neither driver appeared to break prior to the collision
5. The length of the skid was 12.8m in a direction N 7degrees W
6. The mass of the honda is 1400kg
7. the mass of the wrx is 1200kg
8. it was a dry day and the coefficient of friction between the tyres and the road is 0.6
9. the road is straight and flat
10. a witness states that the honda was stationary at a stop sign prior to entering the intersection
11. The beginning of the skid mark was 6m from the stop signDetermine the following:
a) was the suburu exceeding the 80km/h speed limit?
b) was the suburu visible to the driver of the honda before they initiated the turn?

*make sure u state all assumptions you have made
**the visibility of a car for a person with 20/20 vision is 1375feet and for a person with 20/50 vision is 550 feet.
 
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You need to show some of your working for help...

Although, I can say that (1) and (2) probably won't add too much to the answer :biggrin:
 
What I would do is use the work kinetic energy theorem to calculate their combined velocity just before they started skidding. Then use momentum conservation for the collision to calculate the velocity of the suburu just before the collision.
 
how would i use the theorem before they started skidding though?
 
You use the theorem for the skidding part only.
 
ok. and what abot the care that entered the intersection (6m away at the stop sign) does that information seem relevant?
 
brightesthalo said:
ok. and what abot the care that entered the intersection (6m away at the stop sign) does that information seem relevant?
That's one of the cars involved in the crash - you could probably take it to be stationary, or 10kph...
 
To be honest I myself will just ignore it since I have no idea what to do with it (only God and maybe high speed photography will enable one to know how to take that into account) and use momentum conservation for the rest. The skid marks were produced probably (a little bit after the collision) due to someone who had the sense to slam on his brakes (delayed reaction time) or the wheels dragging due to failure?
 
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andrevdh said:
To be honest I myself will just ignore it since I have no idea what to do with it (only God and maybe high speed photography will enable one to know how to take that into account) and use momentum conservation for the rest.
I wouldn't ignore it - if you do, the Suburu will have nothing to crash into :biggrin:
 
  • #10
hmm i see my homework as a bit ambuguous haha damn homework
 
  • #11
i meant ambiguous
 
  • #12
i still seem to be lost on this question.
 
  • #13
can anyone give me some extra help?
 
  • #14
Well, you have two objects which you know the mass and velocities of; the impact at right angles; they travel as a single object with which you know the mass and can work out the velocity; you know the distance traveled to zero velocity after the collision; this should give an average deceleration which you can compare to frictional forces...
 
  • #15
Apply the theorem to the skidding part of the collision - Assumption: The wrecks came to a halt at the end of it. Show us your results in your next post.

My thoughts on the inclusion of the 6 meters is that since the distance is so large one can safely assume that there were no interaction forces with the road present during the collision. This means that momentum will be conserved for the collision part of the incident.
 
  • #16
thing is i don't know the velocities of the two objects all I am given is the mass of them both, the angle which they skid as one and how many metres they skid
 
  • #17
im only given the skid mark and the distasnce of it i don't have any velocities
 
  • #18
brightesthalo said:
thing is i don't know the velocities of the two objects all I am given is the mass of them both, the angle which they skid as one and how many metres they skid
...but you need to work out the velocity of the Suburu.

The Honda has just set-off from being stationary, so you could assum it to have zero velocity or, say, 10kpm - didn't we do this yesterday :smile:
 
  • #19
Have you done the work-kinetic energy theorem yet?
 
  • #20
KE = 1/2 mv2 right?
we never got taught the work-kinetic energy theorem which is annoying (as u can see iv only started physics and I am not very good at it)
 
  • #21
Ok let's do the skidding part with kinematics then.

What force is causing the wrecks to decelerate during the skidding part?

Can you calculate the magnitude of this force?
 
  • #22
the force of friction and i am guessing they would be trying to brake during collision

oh man i must really suck
 
  • #23
When a car brakes the wheels slide in stead of roll over the road. Guess what happens when an object slides over a surface? It experiences a frictional force coming from the surface. Try and calculate the magnitude of this frictional force for the combined wrecks.
 
  • #24
N=W
= mg
= 1200 x 9.8
= 11760N

F = u W
= 0.6 x 11760
= 7056N

Am i on the right track?
 
  • #25
oh hang on i need combined wrecks
not just suburu damn
 
  • #26
so i add 1200 and 1400 then x 9.8 = 25480N
then divide .6 = 15288N

? I am not doing this right am i?
 
  • #27
Seems fine. Now calculate their acceleration and their initial speed, that is their combined speed before the skidding started.
 
  • #28
a = F/m
= 15288/2600
= 5.88m/s

as for initial speed how do i calculate that?
 
  • #29
would that be using v2=u2 +2as somehow?
 
  • #30
That is correct.
 

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