Superman and Time Travel: Is It Possible?

[Mentallic]

In the movie, when superman flies near light speed, he manages to reverse time? Was the story-line just completely off from a physical perspective or is there some truth to this phenomenon? I understand that time would slow down for superman from a human's perspective. Maybe I just didn't understand what the movie-makers were implying that superman was doing, possibly (or impossibly) traveling faster than c in order to turn back the clock?

 

[Vals509]

i would think that their reasoning would be correct. however if you put it in einstein's view, he would probably say that it would be rubbish as you need infinite mass to reach light speed. but overall, they are are half correct in showing him do that stunt.

 

[Mentallic]

What was their half-baked reasoning though? Were they implying that traveling near the speed of light will cause backward time travel, or that superman traveled faster than light?

 

[Phrak]

In the movie, when superman flies near light speed, he manages to reverse time? Was the story-line just completely off from a physical perspective or is there some truth to this phenomenon? I understand that time would slow down for superman from a human's perspective. Maybe I just didn't understand what the movie-makers were implying that superman was doing, possibly (or impossibly) traveling faster than c in order to turn back the clock?

I thought he was traveling backwards to the spin of the Earth, turning back the days. I left the room to vomit. Did I over-react?

 

[Mentallic]

I thought he was traveling backwards to the spin of the Earth, turning back the days. I left the room to vomit. Did I over-react?

That idea sounds even worse! They're saying that if you can travel faster than the Earth's rotation (which most jets now-a-days are accomplishing daily) but in the opposite direction, you will travel back in time?

 

[DaveC426913]

That idea sounds even worse! They're saying that if you can travel faster than the Earth's rotation (which most jets now-a-days are accomplishing daily) but in the opposite direction, you will travel back in time?

No. Come on now.

He was clearly flying at relativistic speeds - his path became just a blur (at the speed of light, he would circumnavigate the Earth about 7 times every second. Good thing they're paying attention to detail! )

They're clearly extrapolating that, if time slows down and stops at c, then exceeding c should make it go backwards.

 

[Irrational]

maybe he had some help from his trusty sidekick mathman to renormalise some infinities.

 

[Mentallic]

So he was supposed to be traveling faster than c? Thats quite an amazing velocity to reach! Not to mention the acceleration (he got to max speed in about 3 seconds). Imagine the G-forces this guy was feeling! But then again, a bullet won't penetrate his eye so I'm sure he didn't feel more than a tickle

 

[HallsofIvy]

I thought he was traveling backwards to the spin of the Earth, turning back the days. I left the room to vomit. Did I over-react?

In the old comic-books, that exactly what he did in order to travel back in time!
(Vomiting may have been a bit of an over-reaction.)

 

[Mentallic]

In the old comic-books, that exactly what he did in order to travel back in time!

I doubt these old comics came from before the time of Einstein and relativity. If superman weren't first published as a cartoon and aimed for children, I'd have to question the writers' knowledge of... stuff in general...

 

[Phrak]

I doubt these old comics came from before the time of Einstein and relativity. If superman weren't first published as a cartoon and aimed for children, I'd have to question the writers' knowledge of... stuff in general...

Wait I know! He went around the Earth so fast, he was able to spin the Earth backward via relativistic frame drag, thereby reversing the days. It's all so obvious now.

 

[Matterwave]

I've always thought that he went so fast he made the Earth spin the other way, thus reversing time (obviously that's what'd happen!).

I never saw anything relativistic in this because otherwise he needn't fly in a circle, he could just fly in a straight line, break C, and then fly right back. Also, if it were to do with relativity why did the filmmakers spin the Earth the other way?

 

[thoughtgaze]

Wait I know! He went around the Earth so fast, he was able to spin the Earth backward via relativistic frame drag, thereby reversing the days. It's all so obvious now.

Yeah that's what I thought it was supposed to be, something like that. Ridiculous I know but you can tell this is what they were going for because after he spins the Earth one way, he SPINS IT BACK the other way to make time go forward again.

 

[Phrak]

Yeah that's what I thought it was supposed to be, something like that. Ridiculous I know but you can tell this is what they were going for because after he spins the Earth one way, he SPINS IT BACK the other way to make time go forward again.

Hmm. I don't know whom's fooling who..

How do you figure he learned that trick, growing up in a barn full of hay, and all?

 

[atyy]

Hmm. I don't know whom's fooling who..

How do you figure he learned that trick, growing up in a barn full of hay, and all?

Practised on a chick or piglet.

 

[Mentallic]

Practised on a chick or piglet.

He would have failed everytime due to relativistic reflux of the livestock's intestines.

 

[DaveC426913]

What astonished me was not the idea that he could fly faster than the speed of light thus traveling back in time, it was that he could fly faster than the speed of light to reverse time. (Subtle difference.)

He flew really fast.
The Earth stopped and reversed its rotation.
He stopped flying fast.
The Earth continued to rotate in the opposite direction.
He flew real fast the other way.
The Earth stopped and reversed its rotation back to normal.

See, there was a period of a few seconds there where he was flying normally and Earth was continuing to rotate backwards. The implication is that, if he has decided to go land, he would see everybody walking backwards, etc.

 

[Mentallic]

Hehe nice observation DaveC.

I'm also wondering if it truly is possible to reverse the spin of the such a large mass as the Earth that quickly with a mass of a normal human traveling near the speed of light. I'm unsure of what the physical phenomenon of this is called though. I'm guessing it could happen due to the atmosphere moving with superman, and thus slowly re-rotating the Earth in the opposite direction with superman. But again, superman clearly flew at least half the radius of the Earth into space before his flight so the atmosphere there would be so very thin?

 

[matheinste]

On a more serious note, at school we were taught that although the speed of superman was, of course, variable, it was the same all reference frames.

Matheinste.

 

[DaveC426913]

Hehe nice observation DaveC.

I'm also wondering if it truly is possible to reverse the spin of the such a large mass as the Earth that quickly with a mass of a normal human traveling near the speed of light. I'm unsure of what the physical phenomenon of this is called though. I'm guessing it could happen due to the atmosphere moving with superman, and thus slowly re-rotating the Earth in the opposite direction with superman. But again, superman clearly flew at least half the radius of the Earth into space before his flight so the atmosphere there would be so very thin?

What? No! He flew faster than the speed of light. He traveled backward in time. He did not do anything to the Earth at all. We were seeing the Earth from his point of view, while he was traveling backward in time.

 

[DaveC426913]

BTW, this really ought to be moved to General Discussion. It is about movie junk-physics, and has nothing to do with real physics at all.

 

[Vals509]

isn't this whole argument a bit irrelevant anyway. after all, won't he go beyond the escape velocity of Earth after reaching light speed and shoot out into space away from earth, rather than keep going around it.

 

[thoughtgaze]

What? No! He flew faster than the speed of light. He traveled backward in time. He did not do anything to the Earth at all. We were seeing the Earth from his point of view, while he was traveling backward in time.

No I don't think that's what they were going for. If that was the case time would have stopped traveling backward as soon as he stopped even though the whole idea is flawed. He flew in one direction to spin the Earth the other way and somehow Earth's rotation is linked with Earth's time. If ur way was true, he would be making time go backwards regardless of his direction. He's traveling faster than C both times.

 

[The riddler]

Wait a minute DaveC, I am not exactly an expert on Relativity "and all that" but i thought that if you accelerated to the speed of light then time would'nt stop but it would speed up. I respect you position as a PF contributer and a Scientific adviser but i have thought through your hypothsis in situtions featuring the basic laws of Relativity and it doesn't seem to add up.

For example, the sitution that if you left the Earth for 20 minutes going through space at 99% the speed of light your biological clock would slow down in comparission to someone else biological clock on earth. Meaning that when you returned to Earth you would have aged slightly less than whoevers biological clock you are compared to.

I have gone other and other again through this situtation using your hypothesis and it how'd you say "DOE'S NOT COMPUTE". Please explain how your theory complies with the above situation.

 

[DaveC426913]

isn't this whole argument a bit irrelevant anyway. after all, won't he go beyond the escape velocity of Earth after reaching light speed and shoot out into space away from earth, rather than keep going around it.

No, he's in controlled flight, not a ballistic trajectory.

 

[DaveC426913]

No I don't think that's what they were going for. If that was the case time would have stopped traveling backward as soon as he stopped even though the whole idea is flawed.

Oh absolutely. It's not flawed, it's complete poppycock.

There are levels of nonsense here.
First, we have to handwave "the big lie": that going faster than c will reverse time.
Now, that being granted, we have to look at how he does it. You are right, and that is what I'm saying: that the Earth should have only reversed its rotation while he was flying >c.

I think that they felt the effect would be lost on the audience (don't forget, they cater to non-techies, non-science-geeks, and kids). I think they felt that the "time is reversing" needed to be a discrete, identifiable event of a certian duration; the visual equivalent of beating us over the head with the message "Superman is now traveling back in time".

He flew in one direction to spin the Earth the other way and somehow Earth's rotation is linked with Earth's time. If ur way was true, he would be making time go backwards regardless of his direction. He's traveling faster than C both times.

Yes, I think they deliberately parted from any kind of reality in order to make their point. I think it was more important that they convey discrete events for the audience to grasp:

He flies faster than c. This causes Earth's time to reverse. He stops. He flies fast again to cause Earth to re-reverse."

I think the director figured it was too hard to the picture cause and effect.
"He flies faster than c. This causes Earth's time to reverse. He stops flying fast. This causes Earth's time stop being reversed."



I do not think they intended to convey that the Earth's physical rotation would reverse because even ignorant voewer would say "wouldn't everything on Earth be thrown through the air?"

 

[DaveC426913]

Wait a minute DaveC, I am not exactly an expert on Relativity "and all that" but i thought that if you accelerated to the speed of light then time would'nt stop but it would speed up. I respect you position as a PF contributer and a Scientific adviser but i have thought through your hypothsis in situtions featuring the basic laws of Relativity and it doesn't seem to add up.

For example, the sitution that if you left the Earth for 20 minutes going through space at 99% the speed of light your biological clock would slow down in comparission to someone else biological clock on earth. Meaning that when you returned to Earth you would have aged slightly less than whoevers biological clock you are compared to.

I have gone other and other again through this situtation using your hypothesis and it how'd you say "DOE'S NOT COMPUTE". Please explain how your theory complies with the above situation.

Oh ABSOLUTELY. Their portrayal is complete bunk. Please don't for even a second think that I'm claiming there is any real science in here.

In my opinion, they are writing the events as they think the ignorant public will be able to follow what happened. All I am trying to do here is hypothesize what's going through their heads without judging it.

BTW, this is why PF doesn't normally allow these kinds of threads - even in fun. People are tuning in and, without proper context, reading PF Contributors seemingly espousing complete nonsense. This should never happen.

In fact, I think I should recuse myself before anyone gets the wrong idea.

The time reverse sequence in Superman is insultingly bad nonsense-science. Even if you grant their "big lie" (i.e. suspned your disbelief), they've still gotten it wrong.

 

[The riddler]

Oh i see, I don't know why i did'nt notice.

 

[berkeman]

I'm temporarily locking this thread, pending some moderation. We don't discuss fantasy here in the technical forums, and I understand Dave's frustration at having it here.