Taming a Divergent Series -- But how does it work?

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    Divergent Series Work
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the manipulation of a divergent series related to the Riemann Zeta function, particularly focusing on a convergent version derived in a linked video. Participants explore the validity of the derivation and the rules governing series manipulation, questioning the rigor of the approach taken in the video.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern about the validity of replacing the traditional series for the Riemann Zeta function with a modified series, questioning whether the manipulation adheres to strict mathematical rules.
  • There is a discussion about the convergence of the series and whether the derived series can be merged with another sum, with some participants suggesting that the manipulation may not hold for finite sums.
  • Multiple participants point out that the series in question is not defined for n=0, emphasizing that the summation should start from n=1.
  • Some participants propose that the manipulation could be valid under certain conditions, such as assuming absolute convergence, allowing for reordering of terms.
  • Questions arise regarding the concept of analytic continuation and whether the derived series represents a valid continuation beyond the original disk of convergence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the validity of the series manipulation or the concept of analytic continuation. There are competing views on the correctness of the derivation and its implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the definitions used, the starting index of the summation, and the conditions under which the manipulations are valid. There are unresolved questions about the rigor of the derivation and the implications of analytic continuation.

Swamp Thing
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A convergent version ( i.e. convergent in the critical strip) of the traditional series for the Riemann Zeta is derived in the video linked at the bottom. It gives the correct numerical values (at least along the critical line, where I tried it out).

But although it works numerically, I'm wondering whether it is rigorously correct. That is, does the derivation follow the strict rules about how series are to be manipulated? (I am not an expert on those rules, so...)

For example the derivation replaces (in effect)
$$\sum_{n=1}^\infty 1/n^s$$
with
$$\sum_{n=1}^\infty \{ {1/(2n-1)}^s + 1/(2n)^s\}$$

This replacement, though invalid for a finite sum, may well be valid when summing to infinity. However, I'm not sure if the second version above can then be merged with another sum (which is what happens around 07:02 in the video). It seems to me that if we write the sums with independent indices M1 and M2, we would get an error if we then tried to set M1 = M2 = M -- at least for finite M. Given this fact, running the M up to infinity should also be problematic.

But again, it does work numerically, so this trick must be justifiable. So what is going on and how does it all work?

Link to video:
 
Last edited:
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Is that even an analytic continuation?
 
$$
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty } \left(\dfrac{1}{(2n-1)^2}+\dfrac{1}{2n^2}\right)=\dfrac{5}{24}\pi^2\neq \dfrac{4}{24}\pi^2=\zeta(2)
$$
and your series isn't even defined for ##n=0.##
 
fresh_42 said:
$$
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty } \left(\dfrac{1}{(2n-1)^2}+\dfrac{1}{2n^2}\right)=\dfrac{5}{24}\pi^2\neq \dfrac{4}{24}\pi^2=\zeta(2)
$$
and your series isn't even defined for ##n=0.##

Maybe it's 'my bad' ... I should clarify that the substitution quoted in my original post is only an intermediate step. After doing that, he subtracts another scaled copy of the original series.

The final formula derived in the video is this:

1658191563478.png


And it does work.
Code:
fnSumz[s_, 
  N_] := (1/(1 - 2^(1 - s)))  Sum[((-1)^(n - 1))/(n^s), {n, 1, N}]
vv = 0.5 + I 14.1347;
Zeta[vv]
fnSumz[vv, Infinity]
 
3.13536*10^-6 -0.0000196934 I
3.13536*10^-6 -0.0000196934 I
 
Swamp Thing said:
A convergent version ( i.e. convergent in the critical strip) of the traditional series for the Riemann Zeta is derived in the video linked at the bottom. It gives the correct numerical values (at least along the critical line, where I tried it out).

But although it works numerically, I'm wondering whether it is rigorously correct. That is, does the derivation follow the strict rules about how series are to be manipulated? (I am not an expert on those rules, so...)

For example the derivation replaces (in effect)
$$\sum_{n=0}^\infty 1/n^s$$
with
$$\sum_{n=0}^\infty \{ {1/(2n-1)}^s + 1/2n^s\}$$

The lower limit should be 1 in each case.

Assuming the original series is absolutely convergent, we can reorder the terms as we like without affecting the limit, in this case by taking a term for odd n = 2m - 1 followed by the next term for even n = 2m together; and n is just a dummy variable so <br /> \sum_{n=1}^\infty a_n = \sum_{m=1}^\infty (a_{2m-1} + a_{2m}) = \sum_{n=1}^\infty (a_{2n-1} + a_{2n}). (This does also work for finite series, provided the original upper limit N = 2M is even and is replaced by M in the new expression.)
 
pasmith said:
The lower limit should be 1 in each case.
Oops! I'll correct that.
 
fresh_42 said:
$$
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty } \left(\dfrac{1}{(2n-1)^2}+\dfrac{1}{2n^2}\right)=\dfrac{5}{24}\pi^2\neq \dfrac{4}{24}\pi^2=\zeta(2)
$$
and your series isn't even defined for ##n=0.##
But, doesn't it go from ##0## to ##\infty##? And, as @drmalawi points out, it's an issue of determining the ( possibility of) an Analytic Continuation beyond the original disk of convergence. There are cases where there are barriers preventing the continuation beyond the boundary of a disk.
 
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WWGD said:
But, doesn't it go from ##0## to ##\infty##?
No. ##n=0## isn't defined. It is impossible to start at ##0.##
 
fresh_42 said:
No. ##n=0## isn't defined. It is impossible to start at ##0.##
Edit:Sorry, meant to say from ##1## to##\infty##
 
Last edited:
  • #10
WWGD said:
Sorry, meant to say from ##0## tob##\infty##
fresh_42 said:
No. ##n=0## isn't defined. It is impossible to start at ##0.##
 
  • #11
Brain fart , from ##1## to ##\infty##
 
  • #12
...and the 2nd summand is meant to be ##1/(2n)^s##, right?
 
  • #13
I am still curious about that proposed analytic continuation, could someone elaborate on that?
 
  • #14
vanhees71 said:
...and the 2nd summand is meant to be ##1/(2n)^s##, right?
True.

Corrected in OP. (Also corrected the summing from zero, which should be from 1).
 
  • #15
Swamp Thing said:
True.

Corrected in OP. (Also corrected the summing from zero, which should be from 1).
Correcting the thread after the typos have already been discussed makes the thread unreadable.
Edit: ... and is of really bad style and attitude.Thread closed.
 
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