Tensor calculus> definition of contravariants

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of contravariant tensors as presented in Arfken's "Mathematical Methods for Physicists." Participants explore the transition from geometric interpretations involving cosines to differential notation and seek to understand the consistency of these definitions across different sources.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Abolaban questions the transition in Arfken's definition from cosines of angles in a basis to differential notation, seeking clarification on this shift.
  • Orodruin notes that general coordinate transformations are broader than just rotations, implying that the use of cosines is specific to Cartesian tensors.
  • Abolaban confirms the edition of Arfken's book being referenced and inquires about the compatibility of Arfken's definition with another source from the Encyclopedia of Mathematics.
  • Another participant asserts that Arfken's definition is pragmatically aligned with the physical properties of tensors, while the other definition may be more mathematically rigorous.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and their implications, with some suggesting compatibility while others highlight the differences in perspective between physics and mathematics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

There are references to different editions of Arfken's book, which may introduce variations in definitions. The discussion also touches on the distinction between geometric interpretations and mathematical rigor, indicating potential limitations in the clarity of definitions.

Abolaban
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Hello Big minds,

In the book of Arfken [Math Meth for Physicists] p 134 he defined contravariant tensor...my question is about a_ij he defined them first as cosines of an angle of basis then he suddenly replaced them by differential notation...why is that?

cosines are not mention in this article as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covariant_transformationplease note that I newly "ride on my horse" through tensor analysis!best regardsAbolaban
 
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General coordinate transformations are not necessarily rotations. When you deal with Cartesian tensors, you will only come across rotations and so your transformations will contain sines and cosines. However, the general case is more ... well ... general.

When you refer to pages in Arfken, please also state the edition - there are now seven of them ...
 
upload_2015-1-30_19-2-24.png


that was from Arfken's book 6th ed
 
Yes, they are compatible. The difference is that Arfken's definition is a more pragmatic one based on the important physics properties of tensors while the other would satisfy a mathematician to a higher degree.
 

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