Tensor product commutes with pullback?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the pullback operation in differential geometry, specifically focusing on the relationship between the pullback of a metric tensor and the tensor product. Participants explore the validity of the assumption that the pullback commutes with the tensor product in the context of a specific exercise involving a function between manifolds.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an exercise involving the pullback of a metric tensor and assumes that the pullback commutes with the tensor product, seeking clarification on this assumption.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical expression to illustrate how the pullback of the tensor product can be computed, suggesting that the equality holds under certain conditions.
  • A third participant expresses a lack of familiarity with the concepts of pullbacks and pushforwards, asking for clarification on the relationship between these operations and the definitions involved.
  • A later reply emphasizes that each step in the calculations is based on definitions related to the tensor product and pullback, indicating that the reasoning follows from established definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the assumption that the pullback commutes with the tensor product, as some seek clarification while others provide mathematical reasoning without resolving the underlying question.

Contextual Notes

There is an indication of missing familiarity with the concepts of pullbacks and pushforwards among some participants, which may affect their understanding of the discussion. The discussion does not resolve whether the assumption about the commutation of pullbacks and tensor products is universally accepted or under what conditions it holds.

CompuChip
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Messages
4,305
Reaction score
49
Hello,

I have an exercise where we have to pullback a metric g^{ij} \, \mathrm dx_i \, \mathrm dx_j under a function f: M \rightarrow N (actually in this case M = \mathbf{R}^2, N = \mathbf{R}^3, but that's not really relevant).

I managed to do it, provided that the pullback commutes with the tensor product. That is, using that actually \mathrm dx_i \, \mathrm dx_j = \mathrm dx_i \otimes \mathrm dx_j, I assumed that
f^*(\mathrm dx_i \, \mathrm dx_j) = (f^*(\mathrm dx_i)) \otimes (f^*(\mathrm dx_j))
so then I could use that
f^*(\mathrm dx_i) = \mathrm d(f^* x_i) = \mathrm df_i = \frac{\partial f_i}{\partial x_k} \mathrm dx_k
and finish the exercise.

Why is this true?

Thanks a lot.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
f^*(dx_i\otimes dx_j)(u,v)=dx_i\otimes dx_j (f_*u,f_*v)=dx_i(f_*u) dx_j(f_*v)

=f^*(dx_i)(u)f^*(dx_j)(v)=f^*(dx_i)\otimes f^*(dx_j)(u,v)
 
Thank you very much!

I missed a lot on this topic though, so I'm not really familiar with pulls/pushes. Could you clarify the first (= third) step a bit?
Basically, it doesn't matter whether we push u to TN and apply dx, or if we pull dx to T*M and apply it to u -- is this just the "d commutes with push-forwards/pullbacks" statement?

[edit]I found some info here, it seems to be pretty elementary.

Anyway, thanks again for the help. [/edit]
 
Last edited:
Every step in my calculation is a simple application of a definition, of either the tensor product or the pullback. If you meant the third equality sign, I'm just using the definition of a pullback there. I suppose I could have dropped some of the parentheses though and wrote the second line as

=f^*dx_i(u)f^*dx_j(v)=f^*dx_i\otimes f^*dx_j(u,v)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K