Tensor Products and Maps Factoring Through

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter WWGD
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Factoring Tensor
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the tensor product of modules, specifically exploring the concept of maps factoring through and the conditions that allow for the existence of commutative diagrams involving homomorphisms. Participants examine the algebraic results and theorems that support the construction of linear maps from bilinear maps defined on the product of modules.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the tensor product as a new module where every bilinear map becomes a linear map, and poses a question about how specific algebraic results guarantee the existence of a linear map that factors through given maps.
  • Another participant provides a formal definition of the tensor functor and discusses the couniversal transformation problem, suggesting that commutative diagrams are involved in the tensor product's properties.
  • A different participant argues that the existence of the linear map is an elementary result used in more complex theorems, emphasizing the construction of free objects and the role of modding out by relations.
  • One participant mentions the need for additional relations in the context of non-commutative rings, indicating a potential difference in the treatment of tensor products in various algebraic structures.
  • Another participant attempts to directly address the original question by outlining a two-stage theorem process for factoring bilinear maps through linear maps on the tensor product.
  • One participant discusses the representation of bilinear maps as linear maps through the use of Hom functors, suggesting a more sophisticated approach to the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding and approaches to the topic, with some asserting that the existence of the linear map is an elementary result, while others provide more complex explanations involving functorial properties. No consensus is reached on a singular approach or theorem that fully addresses the original question.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion is primarily focused on commutative rings, with one participant highlighting that the situation may differ for non-commutative rings. There are also references to specific relations necessary for defining the tensor product, indicating that assumptions about the algebraic structures involved are crucial to the discussion.

WWGD
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Messages
7,798
Reaction score
13,096
Hi, I understand the tensor product of modules as a new module in which every bilinear map becomes a linear map.

But now I am trying to see the Tensor product of modules from the perspective of maps
factoring through, i.e., from properties that allow a commutative triangle of maps. As a concrete example of what I mean:

For homomorphisms f: A-->B and g: A-->C , a condition of the kernels allow
the existence of a commutative triangle , i.e., the conditions allow the existence of a map h
with the necessary properties so that hog=f. More specifically:

If f: A -> B is a homomorphism of groups, and g: A -> C is a
surjective homomorphism of groups, we have that f "descends to a homomorphism"
of groups h: B -> C iff the kernel of g is contained in the kernel of f. In other words,
there is an h with hog=f, which allows f to "factor through" and the associated triangle is commutative .
Sorry, I don't know how to draw triangles here in ASCII.

** Now ** I'm curious as to how moding out the free module on a product VxW of R-modules
by the standard necessary relations on the tensor product:

i ) (a+a',b)=(a,b)+(a',b) and:

ii) (a,b+b')=(a,b)+(a,b')

allows for the existence of the linear map L that completes the commutative triangle, so, my question is:

what specific algebraic result/theorem are we using to guarantee that imposing the above relations allow the existence of a linear map L : V(x)W --> Z , for an R-module Z, to factor thru the maps:

(x): V x W --> V(x)W , and

B: V x W --> Z

i.e., L is the linear map defined on the tensor product V(x) W that represents the bilinear map B defined on the product V xW into Z ?
Thanks,

WWGD: What Would Gauss Do?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Let's go back to the modules. Here is the formal definition:

The tensor functor ##T\, : \,(\operatorname{Mod}_R \times \operatorname{Mod}_R)\times \operatorname{Mod}_R \longrightarrow \operatorname{Set} ## defines a couniversal transformation problem which is solvable. A representing pair ##(M \otimes_R N\, , \,u) ## of ##T(M\times N \times -)\, : \,\operatorname{Mod}_R \longrightarrow \operatorname{Set}## is called tensor product of ##M## and ##N##.

Let ##T## be a contravariant in the first and covariant in the second variable functor.
The question whether there for any object ##M \in \operatorname{Mod}_R## the covariant functor ##T(M,-,-)\, : \,\operatorname{Mod}_R \longrightarrow \operatorname{Set}## is representable is called the couniversal transformation problem.

So you see there are some commutative diagrams involved, although hidden in the contra- and covariance, or all quantors. The connection is the following theorem:

The couniversal transformation problem ##T## is solvable, if and only if for any module ##M\in \operatorname{Mod}_R## there is a module ##M \times N\in \operatorname{Mod}_R\times \operatorname{Mod}_R## and a module homomorphism ##\varphi\, : \,M \longrightarrow M\otimes N## such that: Every module homomorphism ##\psi\, : \,M \longrightarrow P## determines exactly one module homomorphism ##\overline{\psi}\, : \,M\otimes N \longrightarrow P## with ##\psi = \overline{\psi} \circ \varphi ## (from right to left).

This is why it's called "(co)universal". It connects the tensor product with an arbitrary module homomorphism.
 
i don't really understand ur question. what do u mean what theorem is need? this is an elementary result that u use for non trivial theorems, u don't prove elementary properties with other theorems. the tensor product V(x)W is the "freest" way of having formal sums (v1,w1)+(v2,w2)+...(vn,wn) such that always (v,w)+(y,w)=(v+y,w). this is the general method for constructing "free objects" that satisfy certain conditions, by taking formal strings/sums then modding out by whatever relation u need. the existence of L is because B induces a linear map T: F(VxW)->Z, where F(VxW) is the free module on the set VxW, and clearly T maps everything u mod out by in the tensor product V(x)W=F(VxW)/~ to 0, so T induces a map from V(x)W to Z, the map u want.

also this is only for commutative rings. its been ages so i can't remember, but I am pretty for non commutative rings it's a different story.

EDIT: just checked wikipedia u also need the relation r(v,w)=(rv,w)=(v,rw) because bilinear maps preserve scalar multiplication in either variable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_product#The_definition_of_the_abstract_tensor_product been ages so i can't remember anything.
 
Last edited:
Yes,this was 5 years ago when I first read on the topic.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: fresh_42
WWGD said:
Yes,this was 5 years ago when I first read on the topic.
I could have deleted it, but I couldn't restrain from giving a lesson (not to you, as I just checked my list and not even recognized it was you, but to other readers) on universality of functors (hoping I didn't mess with the translation and adaptation on ##T##).

##\operatorname{Hom} \ldots ## :cool:
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: WWGD
To just try to answer the original question as directly as possible, in the spirit of black hole's answer, the desired theorem says that every bilinear map from VxW factors through a linear map on VtensW. This is done in two stages: first the theorem that every function on a basis of a free module induces a linear map on the module gives you a linear map on F(VxW). Then next, the theorem WWGD quotes in his 4th paragraph, about descending a homomorphism, is used. I.e. note that if the original map on VxW was bilinear, then the submodule of relations he gave is contained in the kernel of the induced linear map on F(VxW), hence by the theorem in his 4th paragraph, there is a descended linear map defined on VtensW. That's all, 1) extending a map on a basis, plus 2) descending a map to a quotient.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: WWGD
Somewhat in the spirit of fresh's answer, i.e. of representable functors, given modules V and W, we start from the functor that assigns to a module *, the module Bil(VxW, *) of bilinear maps VxW-->*, and we ask to "represent" it by a "Hom" functor. I.e. we ask for (the existence of) a module X such that there is a natural isomorphism Hom(X,*) ≈ Bil(VxW, *) for all modules *, where Hom(X,*) = the module of linear maps X-->*. I.e. changing Bil(VxW, *) into Hom(X,*), is replacing bilinear maps on VxW, by linear maps on X, as stated in the OP's first sentence.

The key to this is to observe that a bilinear map on VxW defines a linear map from V to linear maps on W, i.e. there is a natural isomorphism Bil(VxW, *) ≈ Hom(V, Hom(W, *)). This is just the definition of "bilinear"; i.e. for each element v of V, the restriction of the bilinear map to {v}xW is linear on W, and this assignment of a linear map on W to each element of V is linear on V. Thus our functor of bilinear maps is actually a composition of Hom functors. Then there is a general theorem that any composition of Hom functors is itself a Hom functor. I.e. there does exist a module X such that Bil(VxW, *) ≈ Hom(V, Hom(W, *)) ≈ Hom(X, *). That X is then the tensor product of V and W.

I.e. the general theorem is that a Hom functor is characterized by the fact that it preserves injections and "inverse limits" (a generalization of direct products). I.e. any operation on modules and maps that preserves injections and inverse limits must be isomorphic to the operation of taking linear maps on some new module, i.e. is a Hom functor. Now since each Hom functor preserves these things, so does their composition. Hence the composition of two (or more) Hom functors is also a Hom functor.

(If Y-->Z is an injection, so is the induced map Hom(X,Y)-->Hom(X,Z), and if Z = ∏Uj, then Hom(X,Z) ≈ ∏Hom(x,Uj), and similarly for inverse limits.)

Notice this more sophisticated argument gives you less, in this specific case, than the concrete one above, since it does not tell you how to actually find the representing module VtensW . I.e. this answers the question of whether bilinear maps on VxW can be represented by linear maps from some module X, with "yes", but it does not discuss how to find that module X. Presumably the proof of the general representability theorem would do so.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K