The 835kph Sailplane and Dynamic Soaring

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Discussion Overview

This thread discusses the engineering and aerodynamics of a sailplane achieving speeds of 835 kph, dynamic soaring techniques, and the implications of these advancements in the context of remote-controlled (RC) hobby aircraft. Participants explore various aspects including aerodynamics, wind patterns, airfoil design, and the potential for robotic applications inspired by nature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express admiration for the engineering behind the sailplane's performance, noting its impressive speed and the challenges of dynamic soaring.
  • There is a discussion about the potential for a swept-wing version of the sailplane to break the sound barrier without external energy input, with some suggesting that human control may become a limiting factor at high speeds.
  • One participant mentions the current dynamic soaring record of 548 mph (882 kph) and later updates this to a new record of 877 kph.
  • Questions arise regarding the methods used to measure speed during dynamic soaring, with suggestions that radar, air data, or GPS might be involved, and some participants discuss the complexities of measuring speed through varying air masses.
  • Several participants share personal experiences related to wind shear and hang gliding, contributing anecdotal evidence to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the impressive nature of the engineering and the concept of dynamic soaring, but there are multiple competing views regarding the specifics of speed measurement and the feasibility of breaking the sound barrier without external energy input. The discussion remains unresolved on these technical points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of speed measurement and the unresolved details regarding the dynamics of airspeed versus groundspeed in the context of dynamic soaring.

anorlunda
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I recommend this video. I'm very impressed by the engineering. 835kph, transonic effects, and 120G turns in a RC hobby aircraft; wow!

From the video, I learned about aerodynamics, wind patterns around hills, the idea of dynamic soaring, airfoil design, controls coordination, ballast design, instrumentation, piloting, and ergonomic limiting human effects. Even the prospect of a robotic albatross in the future.

The video is nearly 1 hour long, but the man is a good speaker, his topic is fascinating, and his graphics instructive.

 
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Wow, that was excellent. Thanks @anorlunda.

I love the albatross angle -- nature has already figured this out for a low-speed ultra-low-energy flying application.

It will be interesting to see if his improved swept-wing version will be able to break the sound barrier without external energy input. I'm guessing he will need to (reluctantly) take the human mostly out of the flying loop at those higher speeds. It sounds like the human control loop is already stressed close to reaction time limits.
 
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berkeman said:
I love the albatross angle -- nature has already figured this out for a low-speed ultra-low-energy flying application.
Here's an IEEE video on the albatross' use of dynamic soaring.
 
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Current dynamic soaring record is 548 mph == 882 kph:

 
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anorlunda said:
The video is nearly 1 hour long, but the man is a good speaker, his topic is fascinating, and his graphics instructive.



I just made a narrated version of the animation that Spencer Lisenby uses in his talk:

 
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A.T. said:
I just made a narrated version of the animation that Spencer Lisenby uses in his talk:


You're really good at that animation stuff. Is there any particular tool that you use?
 
anorlunda said:
I recommend this video. I'm very impressed by the engineering. 835kph, transonic effects, and 120G turns in a RC hobby aircraft; wow!

From the video, I learned about aerodynamics, wind patterns around hills, the idea of dynamic soaring, airfoil design, controls coordination, ballast design, instrumentation, piloting, and ergonomic limiting human effects. Even the prospect of a robotic albatross in the future.

The video is nearly 1 hour long, but the man is a good speaker, his topic is fascinating, and his graphics instructive.


I recommend this video. I'm very impressed by the engineering. 835kph, transonic effects, and 120G turns in a RC hobby aircraft; wow!
anorlunda said:
From the video, I learned about aerodynamics, wind patterns around hills, the idea of dynamic soaring, airfoil design, controls coordination, ballast design, instrumentation, piloting, and ergonomic limiting human effects. Even the prospect of a robotic albatross in the future.

The video is nearly 1 hour long, but the man is a good speaker, his topic is fascinating, and his graphics instructive.


I haven't watched the video yet but I experienced the wind sheer layer first hand when doing some hang gliding that had a Rogallo wing back in my 20s . I still have the scars to prove it.
 
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anorlunda said:
You're really good at that animation stuff. Is there any particular tool that you use?
The 2D was done in Flash, the 3D in Blender.
 
New record 877 kph

 
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  • #10
anorlunda said:
New record 877 kph
Amazing speeds.

Anyone know what speed are they measuring and how? The fast looping track through air masses moving at different speeds must make this a bit of a challenge no matter if its done by radar, air data or GPS. Or perhaps they estimate the speed geometrically from the track size and timing?
 
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Filip Larsen said:
Anyone know what speed are they measuring and how?
They use radar to measure groundspeed on the way upwind. The max airspeed is aprox. that groundspeed plus the windspeed over the ridge, which can be more than 100km/h.
 
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  • #12
anorlunda said:
New record 877 kph



That's from 2018. For the current record from 2021 see post #4.
 
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A.T. said:
hat's from 2018. For the current record from 2021 see post #4.
Whoops. Aplogies. @A.T.