The Armenian Genocide: A Forgotten Atrocity

[Cyrus]

Did anyone else watch this sad interview? I don't know who was worse, Mike Wallace and his blatantly offensive and aggressive interviewing style, or the president and his nonsense rhetoric...


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/09/60minutes/main1879867.shtml

Shoulda been Charlie Rose, and not Mike Wallace doing the interviewing.

 

[Astronuc]

I gave up on 60 Minutes and CBS along time ago.

Charlie Rose is certainly preferable.

 

[kyleb]

"Look if you could — if you could keep your answers concise. Concise. I beg you. We'll get more questions in," Wallace requested.

"Well, one of your questions required — all of your questions require a book-long answer. If you want me to just finish the interview, please tell me and we can wrap up right now," the president said.

"No, no, no, no, no," Wallace said.

"Do you, perhaps want me to say what you want me to say?" Ahmadinejad said to Wallace.

"No, no," Wallace insisted.

"If that is the case, then I ask you to please be patient," the president replied. "Maybe these days you don't have a lot of patience to spare. Maybe these are words that you don't like to hear, Mr. Wallace."

"Why? What? What words do I not like to hear?" Wallace asked.

"Because I think that you're getting angry," Ahmadinejad said.

"I couldn't be happier for the privilege of sitting down with the president of Iran," Wallace said.

And with that established, Wallace moved on to the topic of Iraq.

Nice how Wallace just "established" a bold faced lie there. Ahmadinejad conducted himself respectably though, far better than I can imagine anyone in our administration doing under similar conditions. That video of the after interview with Wallace was absurd as well, he nearly choked himself trying to rationalize what he experienced. I am offended that 60 Minutes even tried to pass that off as journalism.

 

[Tzemach]

For generations now, Westerners have been taught that all peoples are the same, all cultures are the same, all religions are the same, hard-wired to live by the same self-evident truths. Our experience in Iraq, our experience with Islam, if you will, tells us, in fact, that we are not all the same. We do not all want the same things out of governments, our cultures or our religions. There are vast differences between Islam and the West, differences that are not the mission of the United States military, or in the interest of the United States to bridge."

Whether posterity judges us kindly and calls ours a noble experiment in Iraq, the bottom line here and now is that we're not getting results. I mean, how do you expect to fight a war on terror for, or alongside, terrorist sympathizers? It can't be done.

The Iranian mullahs and the Holocaust-denying Mahmoud Ahmadinejad want to destroy Israel and inflict as much damage to the United States and western culture as they can. They say so over and over again. They hate our way of life, our freedoms and our tolerance. Unfortunately, there's no obvious and easy way to handle the Iranian regime, just as there was no obvious and easy way to handle Hitler in the late 1930s.

 

[Astronuc]

For generations now, Westerners have been taught that all peoples are the same, all cultures are the same, all religions are the same, hard-wired to live by the same self-evident truths.

Someone has been misinformed. Westerners are NOT taught that all peoples are the same, all cultures are the same, all religions are the same!

Whether posterity judges us kindly and calls ours a noble experiment in Iraq,

What noble experiment?

 

[Hans de Vries]

The Iranian mullahs and the Holocaust-denying Mahmoud Ahmadinejad want to destroy Israel and inflict as much damage to the United States and western culture as they can. They say so over and over again. They hate our way of life, our freedoms and our tolerance.

Severe IGNORANCE is the main problem at BOTH sides. Yes there is
a problem with Iran but Demonizing and War Propaganda in order to
establish a climate of fear and insanity preparing the path to mass
destruction and war is not wanted.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad felicitated Pope Benedict XVI on the birth anniversary of the Great Prophet Jesus Christ who is the messenger of love, friendship, justice and spirituality. In a message to the leader of the world's Roman Catholics as well as heads of Christian states, he noted that the present world which is filled with violence, discrimination and injustice is in dire need of guidelines of the divine prophets more than any other time in the history. He said efforts to revive basic spiritual values of life will definitely lead to justice, equality and dignity for all human beings. The Iranian president further wished that the new Christian year will bring peace and tranquility to the international community on the basis of justice and spirituality.

http://www.president.ir/eng/ahmadinejad/cronicnews/1384/10/03/index-e.htm#b1

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan in a telephone conversation on Monday discussed the latest regional developments, UNSC Resolution 1701 as well as ways to establish an urgent truce in Lebanon. According to the Public Relations Department of the Presidential office, the telephone call was initiated by Kofi Annan. During the talks, the two sides underlined the need to restore stability, security as well as a durable and just peace in the Middle East.

http://www.president.ir/eng/ahmadinejad/cronicnews/1385/05/23/index-e.htm#b5


And no, It seems he doesn't deny the holocaust anymore after they told
the dumbo that it really happened...


Regards, Hans

 

[Gokul43201]

Short aside - sorry for the digression.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4790005.stm

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has joined a burgeoning international community - by starting his own weblog.

 

[Cyrus]

You know, he has a PhD in civil engineering, and he still teaches grad courses. You think we can get him on PF? LOL!

Hey cyclo, you wanted another civi, well now you got one .

 

[Cyrus]

For generations now, Westerners have been taught that all peoples are the same, all cultures are the same, all religions are the same, hard-wired to live by the same self-evident truths.

As astronuc said, this is not true.

Our experience in Iraq, our experience with Islam, if you will, tells us, in fact, that we are not all the same. We do not all want the same things out of governments, our cultures or our religions. There are vast differences between Islam and the West, differences that are not the mission of the United States military, or in the interest of the United States to bridge.

Exactly, so don't try and bomb them into accepting your way of living, right?

Whether posterity judges us kindly and calls ours a noble experiment in Iraq, the bottom line here and now is that we're not getting results. I mean, how do you expect to fight a war on terror for, or alongside, terrorist sympathizers? It can't be done.

Causing a civil war and thousands of deaths flies for noble these days?

The Iranian mullahs and the Holocaust-denying Mahmoud Ahmadinejad want to destroy Israel and inflict as much damage to the United States and western culture as they can.

Western culture? Eh? I think they have issue with Israel, but not western culture.

They say so over and over again. They hate our way of life, our freedoms and our tolerance.

Really, when did they say that? Can you show me where he said that please?

Unfortunately, there's no obvious and easy way to handle the Iranian regime, just as there was no obvious and easy way to handle Hitler in the late 1930s.

You can start by talking to Iran.......

 

[kyleb]

And no, It seems he doesn't deny the holocaust anymore after they told
the dumbo that it really happened...

Best I can tell his point is the same now as it was back when the controversy started:

"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in a speech to thousands of people in the Iranian city of Zahedan, according to a report on Wednesday from Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting.

"The West has given more significance to the myth of the genocide of the Jews, even more significant than God, religion, and the prophets," he said. "(It) deals very severely with those who deny this myth but does not do anything to those who deny God, religion, and the prophet."

"If you have burned the Jews, why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel," Ahmadinejad said.

"Our question is, if you have committed this huge crime, why should the innocent nation of Palestine pay for this crime?"

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.israel/index.html

Granted, things can get rather jumbled in translation and they don't bother to present a full transcript, but at least according to the end of what they did quote it seems the term "myth" is simply intended to suggest a half-truth; in other words, he is denying that the atrocities committed against the Jewish population of Europe in any way justify those which continue to be committed against the Palestinians.

 

[Anttech]

Did anyone else watch this sad interview? I don't know who was worse, Mike Wallace and his blatantly offensive and aggressive interviewing style, or the president and his nonsense rhetoric...


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/09/60minutes/main1879867.shtml

Shoulda been Charlie Rose, and not Mike Wallace doing the interviewing.

Yes it was terrible, why on Earth was that Journalist acting like a total w@nk? It ruined what could have been a very insightful interview. He obviously wasnt up to the job, and seemingly had his own agenda.

 

[Yonoz]

Severe IGNORANCE is the main problem at BOTH sides. Yes there is
a problem with Iran but Demonizing and War Propaganda in order to
establish a climate of fear and insanity preparing the path to mass
destruction and war is not wanted.

I admit, I never watched that interview, though I saw a snippet in one of the news shows here.
I don't think I'm ignorant when it comes to Iran. My dad lived there with his family for quite a while during the Shah rule and will be the first to attest to the Persians' virtues. It is very unfortunate that they are trapped under a fundamentalist regime that hangs 16-year old rape victims and stones mothers to death.
Iran's leadership has made no effort to conceal its intents with regards to Israel. I think the Iranian nuclear program poses a true threat to Israel's existence. I hope it will be dealt with soon enough. It is generally not a good idea to allow "dumbos" (or their masters) to hold nuclear weapons.

And no, It seems he doesn't deny the holocaust anymore after they told
the dumbo that it really happened...

I couldn't find any reference to that in the sources you provided.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Really, when did they say that? Can you show me where he said that please?



You can start by talking to Iran.......

They don't it's just the US media are famous for showing only the things Ahmedinajad says that are out of context or sound bites, and dismissing anything that is actually balance and educated and interesting, it doesn't sell papers, thus you just get the idea that everything he says to the west is basically a sickening series of abuse.

I wouldn't bother explaining this though, the governement couldn't care less what the Iranian president says or thinks as long as they can portray it as unadulterated evil,as usual they are trying the usual black and white demon and angel deal, never realising that the world isn't like that any more(or ever was) After all Bush won't even talk to the guy, and the cycle of ignorance is complete.

There is little difference in the media either, both in the UK and US there seem to be only negative slants to all he says. This man must say some good things at some point in his carreer, it's just we will it seems never hear about them unless we're preapred to look a little closer. a more balanced picture of this man is unlikely to appear at least from what I've seen. But then I always make the effort to dig a little deeper, some people are happy that there is one side to every story, it's entirely up to them though

I long ago gave up trying to understand what the US government understands by diplomacy, since I long ago gave up expecting them to talk first and invade later, it seems the decision to invade is made years in advance and then the next five years is spent explaining exactly how to achieve this without too much PR damage.

I can tell you one thing as well, the translation of the language is not exactly very good either so, generally what he's saying and how he's saying it and most of the context is a little off. I'm not Iranian but someone told me about a deal of translation errors(I doubt they are deliberate but they alter the meaning subtly in places) I suspect they got an American Iranian speaker to translate, not and Iranian American. Perhaps someone could calrify, anyone speak Parsi?

I have yet to see the full interview, but am planning on watching it later. Even though I'm not a big fan of this guy, I'd rather watch him speak, than listen to Bush make another speech about how the US is fighting for blah blah, meaningless trite, banal, blah. The only thing I want to see Bush fighting for is to maintain some sort of dignity before he leaves his presidency as Ahmadinejadad put it, although he put it better than I

Bush is a political sheep and Ahmadinejad is a political wolf, thus far more entertaining, if not exactly your bag and all that.

 

[Hans de Vries]

Best I can tell his point is the same now as it was back when the controversy started:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.israel/index.html

He seems to be in doubt (about the Holocaust) now rather than denying it.

Letter to GW Bush May 8, 2006:

One of my students told me that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people perished in, news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the warring parties. Each touted their victories and the most recent battlefront defeat of the other party. After the war they claimed that six million Jews had been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two million families. Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle East or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be rationalized or explained?
http://www.president.ir/eng/ahmadinejad/cronicnews/1385/02/19/index-e.htm

Jakarta, May 11, 2006:

Westerners, using their alleged sympathy for the killing of over six million Jews in the course of World War II, established Israel on land belonging to the Palestinians and support its regime, he continued. "We value the life and dignity of human beings and condemn any massacre of innocent people," he (the president) said, and asked why, if indeed the Holocaust is a fact of history, why Israel was established in the East and in Palestinian lands when Jews were killed in Europe. If the Holocaust indeed happened, then those who committed the crime should compensate for it,
http://www.president.ir/eng/ahmadinejad/cronicnews/1385/02/21/index-e.htm

Still, any such ignorance about the most appalling crimes against humanity
is shocking.
I can’t help pointing out the US administrations own case of never ending
Holocaust denial, as recently as two weeks ago:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060803/pl_afp/usturkeyarmenia_060803143919

The genocide of 1.5 million Christian Armenians by the Turkish Ottoman
empire 1915-1923. Hitler once suggested that the world would forget about
the "Endlösung" like the world also forgot about the Armenian Genocide.
(late Pat Jennings, ABC news)

(See Pat’s ABC news video at: http://theforgotten.org/site/intro_eng.html)

A denial to please its Turkish ally. Most Western European countries
have officially recognized the Armenian Holocaust. The US administration
refuses to do so. Most individual states however did recognize it with the
notable exception of Texas, but including the state of Florida (and Jeb
personally)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ArmenianGenocideRecognition.png
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4042/govbushproclamation7gk.jpg Regards, Hans

 

[Anttech]

The genocide of 1.5 million Christian Armenians by the Turkish Ottoman
empire 1915-1918. Hitler once suggested that the world would forget about
the "Endlösung" like the world also forgot about the Armenian Genocide.
(late Pat Jennings, ABC news)

It wasnt only Armenians that were killed in this prelude to the Holocaust but many Greeks, and other Christians living in Asia minor. Its Turkeys albatross now, if they want in the EU they have to admit this. If they admit it, it will be political suicide for whomever does so.