# The ATF and their role in gun control

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Alfi

## Main Question or Discussion Point

The NRA says it wants existing laws to govern the control of firearms.
The NRA removed the power of the ATF to execute the existing laws.

My forecast for future political action is that the NRA will face full legal disclosure in the SCOTUS.

Todd Tiart - Fox news July 19 2011
Todd Tiart - Washington Post - July 21 2003

I think the 'legal people' should ask this person some questions IMHO .

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2011/07...ate-the/182538
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102303763.html [Broken]

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turbo
Gold Member

In any case, I have filled out reams of 4473 forms throughout the years that I spent running the firearms/militaria division of a large auction house. The myth of an "instant background check" is just that - a myth. Sometimes the FBI would give an OK on the phone, but more likely would call back within the day of the sale or the next day, and other times, would just "time out" so that you could make the transfer after 3 days of no response. In that case, the buyer incurs the extra expense of shipping (from my end) and transfer (from a licensed FFL-holder on their end). Either way, the buyer incurred extra expenses. I don't see how Obama is going to streamline the background checks to get around this, and it is to the detriment of to legal sellers at gun-shows and to honest auctioneers to let this situation continue.

BTW: the number of times that my department was audited by the ATF = 0.

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Alfi
ouch ... I was just at them and then did the cut and paste thing to them ... ??
I understand than I should not make 'statements of fact' without some sort of source.

c&p ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/23/AR2010102303763.html

After gun industry pressure, veil was draped over tracing data

Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.) introduced the amendment that blocked gun tracing data.
Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.) introduced the amendment that blocked gun tracing data. (Rick Carioti)
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By James V. Grimaldi and Sari Horwitz
Sunday, October 24, 2010

...
Under the law, investigators cannot reveal federal firearms tracing information that shows how often a dealer sells guns that end up seized in crimes. The law effectively shields retailers from lawsuits, academic study and public scrutiny. It also keeps the spotlight off the relationship between rogue gun dealers and the black market in firearms.

www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/17/1...EVENT-the-ATF-from-enforcing-current-gun-laws
I hope this will be acceptable.

turbo
Gold Member
Disclaimer: I own a couple of semi-automatic pistols (one of which is almost 90 years old), but I have never felt the need to own a semi-auto rifle. I own a 1926 Ithaca double-barrel 16 gauge shotgun, two old Winchester Model 94 lever carbines chambered for .30-30 (and yes, that "94" stands for the initial year of issue - 1894) and a Ruger Model One single-shot rifle chambered for .45-70. I love to plink and shoot targets, but have never felt the urge to get into the assault weapon binge.

People should not get all frothy about some reasonable restrictions to gun transfers. The rub is - how do we make them work? Do we spend  to beef up the FBI to reduce response times so instant background checks can be reasonably "instant"? I have not seen any proposals that would facilitate making the background checks "instant".

Alfi
Either way, the buyer incurred extra expenses. I don't see how Obama is going to streamline the background checks to get around this, and it is to the detriment of to legal sellers at gun-shows and to honest auctioneers to let this situation continue.

BTW: the number of times that my department was audited by the ATF = 0.
IF even one dollar is incurred in extra expenses ... suck it up ... pass it on to the consumer.
IF You don't see the streamlining ... suck it up. Change is required. Make it happen.

BTW: the number of times that my department was audited by the ATF = 0
and this is the point ... perhaps it should be once a month.
Give the ATF back the teeth that they had until taken away by the GOP by way of Tiahrt and his awards from the NRA

Alfi
Disclaimer: I own a couple of semi-automatic pistols (one of which is almost 90 years old), but I have never felt the need to own a semi-auto rifle. I own a 1926 Ithaca double-barrel 16 gauge shotgun, two old Winchester Model 94 lever carbines chambered for .30-30 (and yes, that "94" stands for the initial year of issue - 1894) and a Ruger Model One single-shot rifle chambered for .45-70. I love to plink and shoot targets, but have never felt the urge to get into the assault weapon binge.
I don't care what you own. Not at issue.

Are they secure? As per law
Good! ... then they won't be stolen and used to kill your mother and your children.

So ... what do you feel about ten, twenty, hundred ... ammunition capability?
What requests proposed are you against?
Money?

nsaspook
Give the ATF back the teeth that they had until taken away by the GOP by way of Tiahrt and his awards from the NRA
The ATF had their teeth taken away because it was and still is the only government agency that makes the TSA look good.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_1...furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

"I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in the wrong hands...I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents (sic) safety because I have some very close friends that are US Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents (sic) safety that protect our country."

"It's like ATF created or added to the problem so they could be the solution to it and pat themselves on the back," says one law enforcement source familiar with the facts. "It's a circular way of thinking."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Over the course of the next 10 months that I was involved in this operation, we monitored as they purchased hand guns, AK-47 variants, and .50 caliber rifles almost daily. Rather than conduct any enforcement actions, we took notes, we recorded observations, we tracked movements of these individuals for a short time after their purchases, but nothing more. Knowing all the while, just days after these purchases, the guns that we saw these individuals buy would begin turning up at crime scenes in the United States and Mexico, we still did nothing. ...
I cannot begin to think of how the risk of letting guns fall into the hands of known criminals could possibly advance any legitimate law enforcement interest.

Alfi