The bad news is you're not being laid off

[Moonbear]

Yeah, see, it's not a question of getting fed up and leaving before you get fired, it's an issue of an employer creating a work situation -- with unreasonable job requirements (which you didn't sign on for initially) -- such that they put employees into a position that they are forced to quit rather than be fired or laid off. It's an underhanded employer maneuvre that "constructive dismissal" is supposed to guard against. Like Evo's situation of being handed an impossible task, and ensuring that the task is entirely impossible by making them sign documents in which they agree not to work over 40 hours a week in order to meet the demands of the unreasonable standards.

In other words, the employer is deliberately, and rather clearly, setting up a situation in which "dismissal with cause" is viable or people simply quit because the situation is intolerable. That's not allowed here. It's not really fickle.

I really think here you pretty much have to wait for them to fire you (otherwise you don't really know for sure they are going to fire with cause and aren't just crappy employers), and then you can sue for wrongful termination. But, it really seems that other labor laws are being violated that she shouldn't need to wait for that to happen to start taking legal action.

Of course, the best is just to contact a lawyer and find out from someone who actually knows these laws in the US.

 

[turbo]

Evo's company's stock has tanked, and if the employees start a class-action lawsuit to try to get compensation for wrongful-termination, there is no way that any other telecom will buy what remains of the company, if they have to inherit the lawsuit. Not that there would be enough assets left to satisfy reasonable claims, anyway. Nasty! About the only option is to get a REALLY good employment-law attorney, file an individual suit on a contingent-fee basis, and get the company to settle that or beat them in court before the very large, slow-moving class-action suit gets under way.

The whole industry is in flux, at this point, and who knows where it will go? A small, under-capitalized telecom was allowed to buy Verizon's land-line operations in northern New England, and they promptly screwed up bandwidth agreements with large commercial customers, and took a long time to restore service. They are spending mega-bucks on a series of commercials regarding their DSL services while applying for bankruptcy protection. It's a bad situation for anybody whose company relies on broadband services because there is no redundant capacity should the telecom fail.

 

[Monique]

I really feel for you, maybe you should just go on a vacation to Guam and learn to be a Bathynaut

 

[leroyjenkens]

This is actually the second quota doubling since January of this year. Two weeks ago, they made us sign a document agreeing that we could not work more than 8 hours a day, or we would be fired, and not reporting time worked would result in firing. So working enough hours to make the increased quota, even if you do it on your own time, will result in being fired.

In order to meet the first quota doubling, many of us chose to work unpaid hours to complete the new requirement of quadrupled reports and still produce the amount of increased results they required.

Strike.

 

[Office_Shredder]

Strike.

If they go on strike they'll get fired. The company doesn't want them, it's just having trouble getting rid of them

 

[turbo]

Strike.

Unfortunately, Kansas is a right-to-work state, and collective bargaining is essentially ham-strung by the inability of unions to organize employees (anybody can opt out even if a solid majority of employees want representation.) Also, if you don't have an employment contract (are an at-will employee), you can be fired for any reason, as long is it is not illegal. Many states allow you to contest your firing, if it appears you were not fired "for cause", but it is tough for an unemployed person to finance an expensive legal battle, and make that stick. Absent collective bargaining and enforceable labor contracts, employees can lose their jobs pretty much at the whim of the employer.

Setting unreasonable productivity goals while reducing resources (including allowable hours-worked) is a pretty clear case of abuse on the part of the employer, especially in a company with a shrinking market-share. Still, it is highly unlikely that a work-force that is not organized is going to have any recourse at all. The company will simply fire anybody that causes a stink, on any old trumped-up reason.

 

[Sorry!]

Setting unreasonable productivity goals while reducing resources (including allowable hours-worked) is a pretty clear case of abuse on the part of the employer, especially in a company with a shrinking market-share. Still, it is highly unlikely that a work-force that is not organized is going to have any recourse at all. The company will simply fire anybody that causes a stink, on any old trumped-up reason.

Well I know here in Canada if you contact the Ministry of Labour they take care of everything for you. No need for a 'legal battle' unless of course you do not agree with their decision. It does take a bit of time but in some cases (like Evo's) it would be worth the call. When you call and the company finds out that you have made the all it's in the companies best interest to not fire you. It is a 'major' law to fire someone because they've contacted the ministry and you can bet that they'll be coming down hard for it.

 

[drankin]

So, my company, considered one of the worst in America for their CEO and upper management incompetence, has to downsize again. We had a meeting today, expecting to be given the option to take a voluntary layoff, which is a package that would include 6 months of pay and benefits, minimum, or stay and risk firing.

NOPE.

They told us that instead of offering us a lay off package, where we might have some chance of having enough money and benefits to hold us over until we can find another job, they are, instead, doubling our quotas so that no one will be able to meet them and be fired. Our director was actually laughing as he said, so no one is at risk of being laid off (and getting a compensation package), your risk is of being fired, without compensation, if you do not meet the new doubled quotas.

YAY!

Sucks to leave a position (I'm assuming you will move on) but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

The ships sinking. Time to find better opportunities. Good luck, Evo.

 

[turbo]

Well I know here in Canada if you contact the Ministry of Labour they take care of everything for you. No need for a 'legal battle' unless of course you do not agree with their decision. It does take a bit of time but in some cases (like Evo's) it would be worth the call. When you call and the company finds out that you have made the all it's in the companies best interest to not fire you. It is a 'major' law to fire someone because they've contacted the ministry and you can bet that they'll be coming down hard for it.

Here in the US (at least in Maine) employees do not have that protection. My last employer told me that he was abrogating my contract and cutting my compensation in half because I had to work primarily from home due to a disability (the division was making record profits during that time, BTW - and the only full-time employees were me and my administrative assistant). I told him that if he did that, I would contact the Maine Human Rights division and file a discrimination complaint. He fired me for "threatening him" as he put it, and the GM reluctantly confirmed that in a sworn deposition. Still the case was thrown out of Federal court. Being "protected" by laws that are rarely enforced is no protection at all.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I'm sorry this happened to you Evo. It seems to me that they intend to save money by having you quit instead of firing you. I don't know the whole story, but it seems that no matter how this turns out, you need to leave the company and find something better. My last company told me to double my output too and I quit immediately. How can anyone sleep 16 hours a day?

 

[leroyjenkens]

If they go on strike they'll get fired. The company doesn't want them, it's just having trouble getting rid of them

Oh, I thought it was the entire company and not just a division. I meant for everyone in the company to strike. They need some workers.

My last company told me to double my output too and I quit immediately. How can anyone sleep 16 hours a day?

Your job was sleeping?

 

[CRGreathouse]

I'll disagree with the majority here. I don't expect there is much recourse for Evo here. Employment is at-will and there is no legal right to severance packages.

You might be able to win a wrongful termination suit, but the only effect you could really hope for there is to get the job loss reclassified as a layoff rather than firing (if it would have an effect on your unemployment status). This could possibly be done collectively with your coworkers.

 

[Pattonias]

I'll disagree with the majority here. I don't expect there is much recourse for Evo here. Employment is at-will and there is no legal right to severance packages.

You might be able to win a wrongful termination suit, but the only effect you could really hope for there is to get the job loss reclassified as a layoff rather than firing (if it would have an effect on your unemployment status). This could possibly be done collectively with your coworkers.

I disagree here, it is illegal to circumvent a severance package, that was most likely guaranteed in your contract, by creating a unworkable environment. Especially if they are being so blatant about it. Contact the media. They will be just as affective. You could probably get the lawyers fees paid for.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I disagree here, it is illegal to circumvent a severance package, that was most likely guaranteed in your contract, by creating a unworkable environment.

Does Evo have a contract guaranteeing a severance package? If so, this largely moves from employment law to contract law.

 

[George Jones]

Evo, what a nasty situation!

Your job was sleeping?

 

[turbo]

I disagree here, it is illegal to circumvent a severance package, that was most likely guaranteed in your contract, by creating a unworkable environment. Especially if they are being so blatant about it. Contact the media. They will be just as affective. You could probably get the lawyers fees paid for.

I had a contract specifying my compensation. It also laid out the terms of payment for that compensation should my employment end for a variety of reasons. My employer basically told me to stuff it, accept what he was willing to pay me, and shut up. When I said that I would file a claim of discrimination based on a medical disability (that he was made well-aware of before he even hired me, BTW, because I believed in being up-front with employers regarding my capabilities and limitations), he fired me and he TOLD me that's why he fired me, and he told the GM that's why he fired me. Under my leadership, that division had made that puke many millions of dollars in net profits, and he didn't want to keep paying me my incentive pay. When I took over that division, it was barely turning a profit, and he set up an "insurmountable" incentive program with generous bonuses. Guess what? A few years later, the division was the industry leader, setting world records year after year and making so much money that the owner and his GM starting charging my department more and more of the operations costs of the entire company to keep my net profits (and incentive pay) down. He tried to cheat me out of a little less than $100K of incentive pay, and ended up replacing me with 3 full-time people. Some "savings". Still, the legal system is designed to protect jerks like that and screw employees. Evo is up a creek. Her employers are creeps, but they have a BIG brand, and a legal team.

 

[Evo]

No contracts, as was stated, most states in the US are "employmjent at will" which means a company can terminate an employee without or without cause and an employee can quit at any time for any reason.

I think if anyone does get fired and files a wrongful ternmination suit that they might win since the amount of work required was decided without any justification other than, "we keep raising the bar and most of you keep meeting it". Well, that's because some people are working 80 plus hours a week and others have found less than kosher ways to report their results. Not to mention that some are doing a lot of really shoddy work that's bound to hit the fan sooner or later.

Right now I'm one of those exceeding the amount of work required, but I am killing myself. I think this just typifies the direction more companies seem to be taking to dig themselves out of financial trouble.

 

[dlgoff]

Evo,

This so much reminds me of the company I worked for just before it went bankrupt. Once they made the bankrupt filing, we were out of luck. Came to work one day and the doors were locked with a notice of a meeting off site. They laid off 50% right off, did another 50% layoff in a month, and the rest 2 months after that. Lucky thing for me was being able to stay to the end shutting things down at a 100% stay bonus then 6 month unemployment insurance.

 

[Sorry!]

No contracts, as was stated, most states in the US are "employmjent at will" which means a company can terminate an employee without or without cause and an employee can quit at any time for any reason.

I think if anyone does get fired and files a wrongful ternmination suit that they might win since the amount of work required was decided without any justification other than, "we keep raising the bar and most of you keep meeting it". Well, that's because some people are working 80 plus hours a week and others have found less than kosher ways to report their results. Not to mention that some are doing a lot of really shoddy work that's bound to hit the fan sooner or later.

Right now I'm one of those exceeding the amount of work required, but I am killing myself. I think this just typifies the direction more companies seem to be taking to dig themselves out of financial trouble.

I assume this company makes money off the work you do? Get all your employee friends together and do everything completely wrong. Even better if it involves other people make them get mad at your company. HAH.

Since America apparently doesn't like protecting it's people from being taken advantage of I guess you should just start getting those resumes out there.

+Maybe contact the media? I'm sure the heads of the company will also need to start a new business/find new jobs as well. Make them out to look like the evil greedy assholes they are :)

 

[Ronnin]

When I have moments like this at work i normally resort to watching "Office Space" for the umteenth time.

 

[turbo]

I think if anyone does get fired and files a wrongful ternmination suit that they might win since the amount of work required was decided without any justification other than, "we keep raising the bar and most of you keep meeting it". Well, that's because some people are working 80 plus hours a week and others have found less than kosher ways to report their results. Not to mention that some are doing a lot of really shoddy work that's bound to hit the fan sooner or later.

Ross Perot made a fortune by hooking up with customers that would make large orders when his compensation was at its highest, with NO penalty for cancellation. Guess what? He called in a lot of favors, got highly compensated, and left his employer in the lurch after the contracts that those bonuses were based on were canceled en-mass.

I'm not suggesting this as a business model, but putting it out as a cautionary tale. Businesses can promise a lot during boom-times, and they can run into problems when the time to pay comes due. In my case, I was pulling in less than $200K/yr in incentive pay, but the owner's greed led him to try to cut that unilaterally, while the net profits of my tiny division were running well over $1.25M/year. The state and federal court systems should have slapped that creep down with fines and penalties, yet they let him slide off. I guess a tiny piece of all those millions can buy a judge or two.

Evo is in a really hard place! Even when I was not "on the clock" I had clients in Europe, Asia, NZ, and other time zones that had to be kept up with. There is absolutely no way that I would have bothered to log each and every call I made or received when I was working at home, after putting in 8-10 hours per day (and many more during crunch times), but my legal team thought that such protestations would "confuse" a judge or jury. Duh! If a billionaire heir of a candy-fortune calls you at midnight from Switzerland, you take the call. If you have to call a client in another time-zone whose schedule is far offset from your own, you make the call. I have taken bids on significant items of US militaria from countries in Africa, NZ/OZ, SE asia, etc. I gave big bidders my home number so that they could get in touch with me any time. Few abused it. Most international businessmen are acutely aware of time-differences.

One time, I had an interesting twist. A highly-placed offiicer of a defense contractor called me after he touched down in Chad. I had Fed-Exed him a catalog and he got it in MD before his flight. During the flight, an Ireland-based contractor had been eying his catalog, and wanted to bid on some Confederate items. I got a call from my client, asking me to place progressive bids for him some items, then he handed his cell phone to his new-found buddy, who also placed bids on the CS items. I got CC #s from the new customer, but relied on the personal recommendation of the older client to over-ride the company's guidelines on bid-limits for new customers. Personal trust and "gut-feeling" evaluation is missing in today's business climate. Over 10 years ago, I got a call from an investment consultant/specialist in Confederate items. He invoked the names of friends of mine in CW militaria and asked me to talk to them, and then asked if I would allow him a multi-million-dollar credit limit in future auctions because he was representing some BIG buyers. I checked with his references, approved his auction limits, and he has done quite well, using my acceptance to leverage his way into other auction houses. These days, you will see him prominently featured as a "Confederate" expert on the Antiques Road Show. He is a lot smarter than that, but the producers of that show prefer to highlight furniture, art, etc.

 

[Sorry!]

turbo I like you and all but your posts recently seem to be kinda rambling. I don't see how anything you said will help or support Evo in anyway lol. You seem to like to talk about yourself and things to do with you a lot hmmm. Guess I just didn't notice it before?

 

[edward]

Sorry to hear about this Evo. I have a nephew in Ohio going through about the same thing. He is working 12 hrs per day 6 days per week. He can't get overtime pay because he is a salaried employee.

Workloads and associated stress are increasing in the workplace while employee morale, motivation and endurance are declining, according to a survey of business leaders and work-life experts conducted by WFD Consulting.

http://content.opportunityknocks.org/2009/04/21/increased-workload-workplace-pressure-and-stress-taking-toll-on-workers/

If that isn't bad enough, most large employers carry life insurance policies on their workers.

 

[turbo]

turbo I like you and all but your posts recently seem to be kinda rambling. I don't see how anything you said will help or support Evo in anyway lol. You seem to like to talk about yourself and things to do with you a lot hmmm. Guess I just didn't notice it before?

Employment law does not protect employees. Get that? I have shown how in my case (at a minimum) the legal system does not protect the rights of the individuals. Evo is up **** creek without a paddle. I had legal agreements (supposedly) that were defensible should one party or another violate such agreement. I was absolutely helpless in the state and federal legal systems.

Evo is even worse-off, if that is possible. Workers in our society (even high-skilled workers such as Evo who can evaluate, redesign, re-task digital resources) are all at risk.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

That is nasty. Sorry to hear it, Evo.

 

[Redbelly98]

Good luck Evo. Will you be looking around for another job?

 

[Moonbear]

No contracts, as was stated, most states in the US are "employmjent at will" which means a company can terminate an employee without or without cause and an employee can quit at any time for any reason.

I think if anyone does get fired and files a wrongful ternmination suit that they might win since the amount of work required was decided without any justification other than, "we keep raising the bar and most of you keep meeting it". Well, that's because some people are working 80 plus hours a week and others have found less than kosher ways to report their results. Not to mention that some are doing a lot of really shoddy work that's bound to hit the fan sooner or later.

Right now I'm one of those exceeding the amount of work required, but I am killing myself. I think this just typifies the direction more companies seem to be taking to dig themselves out of financial trouble.

Without a contract specifying it, you're not entitled to any sort of severance pay. Severance pay is a courtesy, not a requirement, and even if it were in a contract, they could wiggle out of it when they need to make the layoffs because they have no money rather than because they're restructuring or being bought out or some such. So, the company wouldn't need to play games like this to get out of paying severance packages if they needed to resort to layoffs.

The reason it's worth fighting has nothing to do with any hope you'd get that severance package, it's the difference between having "laid off" and "fired for not meeting quotas" on your work history both for getting a new job and for any unemployment benefits you'd normally be entitled to. Nobody can protect workers from a company getting ready to go belly-up in terms of trying to keep your job, it's more about what the file says when you do lose it.

And, if their only justification for raising quotas is that everyone met the previous quota, but are restricting you from working extra hours to see if the new quota can be met in reasonable work hours (doubling your work load without allowing you to double your work hours is unreasonable) I think you can challenge if they try to fire you based on that.

That's why you all need to track your hours. Everyone in that office needs to pool together your efforts, because you're all in the same situation, and anyone of you could be the one they fire...or they might decide to fire all of you. So, it's in everyone's best interest to work together and compile the evidence that would need to be shared.

If there is a lawsuit, I'm pretty sure that anyone still left behind would be protected if they helped provide evidence or testify on behalf of fired employees. I think that should fall under the whistle blower laws. But, that would be a major question to ask an attorney. Obviously, you'll have a hard time making a case if everyone who doesn't get fired clams up and pretends nothing strange happened out of fear of losing their job next.

 

[turbo]

That's why you all need to track your hours. Everyone in that office needs to pool together your efforts, because you're all in the same situation, and anyone of you could be the one they fire...or they might decide to fire all of you. So, it's in everyone's best interest to work together and compile the evidence that would need to be shared.

In an ideal world, that would be a good move, and it would make sense for all workers to buy in. In the real world, it would be disastrous for the worker(s) organizing such an effort, because they will be ratted out by coworker(s) and will be fired out-of-hand. I'm sorry to be so cynical, but there are people in every organization who will sacrifice their co-workers to keep their own jobs, especially if they can throw high-performing co-workers under the bus.