The building of a proton accelerator

[Vanadium 50]

I don't see that continuous beam is a requirement here. In fact, there may be an advantage to pulsed beam, as it's easier to tell if it's getting out the other end if you see it blinking on and off at the machine's cycle time. As far as safety, I don't see that any design dispenses with HV: the advantage of a VdG or a C-W is that their HV is limited to relatively low currents. For that matter, I don't believe that it's possible to build any accelerator without risks, and one of the things that disturbs me about many of our visitors intending to do this is how cavalier they are about these risks.

The energy of a cyclotron is limited by the magnetic field. In principle, you could make this work with very low voltages and long paths. As a practical matter, vacuum sets a limit on your maximum path, which sets a limit on the minimum voltage. One has some ability to trade one against the other.

However, there is also a second-order effect. What happens to the beam that's lost due to collisions with the residual air? Usually, these form ions, and these ions then move in response to the applied electromagnetic fields, changing the net fields. So your field quality goes down.

 

[PHYSICS!!!:-)]

i am also building one, a cyclotron...with some o fmy friends. WE are all in 9th grade, and we understand the basics..so we have to read up on the subject. Here are three good books to read:
"The amateur Scientist"
"Accelerators:Machines of Nucelar Physics"
And "Particel Accelerators"
you should be able to find them at any Univeristy library.
You should also contact Fred Niell, google him. He built an accelerator for the 1994 ISEF and won...check his site out.
You can do it!

 

[ZapperZ]

... and you used PROTONS for such a thing?

Zz.

 

[PHYSICS!!!:-)]

"and you used PROTONS for such a thing?"


was that a reply to my post? no, we haven't built it, nor will we ever build it without the help of our local Physics department, at the local University. If we do actually build it, we will most likely try and use protons.

 

[Vanadium 50]

ZapperZ, I don't understand why protons are so popular - especially when there are messages posted like "I want to build a proton accelerator, and I want it to be easy" - which precludes the advice "don't use protons!". I don't understand why cyclotrons are so popular when there are devices that are a lot more appropriate for the energies being considered. I really don't understand why there is all this focus on magnets and to a lesser extent Dees, when the real problems lie elsewhere - how do you get an ion source to work, so that you don't get recombination, and you get something which is more or less beam-like, so you have a chance of accelerating it before it splats against the wall of your device? How do you tell that you have managed to accelerate the beam? If the beam doesn't accelerate, how do you plan to figure out what's going wrong? These are the hard parts - it's like someone posting a message saying "I want to build an airplane from scratch, and I need your advice. What color should I paint it?"

 

[ZapperZ]

"and you used PROTONS for such a thing?"


was that a reply to my post? no, we haven't built it, nor will we ever build it without the help of our local Physics department, at the local University. If we do actually build it, we will most likely try and use protons.

Then maybe you might want to read the thread all over again. You are suggesting to the OP that this is entirely possible, and the OP wants to build a PROTON ACCELERATOR, in case you didn't notice.

There's a BIG difference between a proton and an electron accelerator. An electron accelerator can actually be quite simple - your old TV can be considered as an electron accelerator. A proton accelerator is a completely different BEAST,and if you know nothing about it, it is irresponsible to suggest that such a thing can be built, the least of which is the SAFETY concerns, and Vanadium had alluded to. Protons can cause a lot of damage, as in radiation damage and activation. This should not be taken lightly.

This is where a little knowledge can be VERY dangerous.

Zz.

 

[PHYSICS!!!:-)]

Then maybe you might want to read the thread all over again. You are suggesting to the OP that this is entirely possible, and the OP wants to build a PROTON ACCELERATOR, in case you didn't notice.

There's a BIG difference between a proton and an electron accelerator. An electron accelerator can actually be quite simple - your old TV can be considered as an electron accelerator. A proton accelerator is a completely different BEAST,and if you know nothing about it, it is irresponsible to suggest that such a thing can be built, the least of which is the SAFETY concerns, and Vanadium had alluded to. Protons can cause a lot of damage, as in radiation damage and activation. This should not be taken lightly.

This is where a little knowledge can be VERY dangerous.

Zz.

well, if you had read my post all the way through, i never said we were going to use them, we will try, bu ton ly if we have the right labratory environmetn and safety equipment to do so. I might only be in 9th grade, but i have common sense. -.-

 

[Vanadium 50]

I might only be in 9th grade, but i have common sense.

And that is precisely the problem. "Common sense" is derived from experience (as they say "good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment") and most people have very little experience with the sort of risks that are present. The problem isn't that you think you'll be doing something unsafe - the problem arises is when you think you're doing something safe.

I would suggest that the common-sense reply to "electrons are safer than protons" is "gee - there's no real reason I need to use protons, so maybe I should use electrons" rather than "I'll be extra-extra careful".

 

[Vanadium 50]

Zapperz, don't you find it a little amusing that two high school students, neither of whom has actually built an accelerator, are giving each other advice? And ignoring advice from someone who has?

 

[ZapperZ]

well, if you had read my post all the way through, i never said we were going to use them, we will try, bu ton ly if we have the right labratory environmetn and safety equipment to do so. I might only be in 9th grade, but i have common sense. -.-

I doubt that you do.

This thread is done.

Zz.