The center of the infinite universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the universe's center and its overall shape, particularly in the context of an infinite universe. Participants explore the implications of an infinite universe on the notion of a center and the limitations of current understanding regarding the universe's shape.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the universe is infinite, it cannot have a center, as a center would require defined peripheries.
  • Others argue that the sun is not at the center of the galaxy, suggesting it is located far from the galactic center.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the overall shape of the universe, with some suggesting it could be spherical, while others note that the universe may be flat or curve back on itself.
  • Participants highlight that the observable universe is finite, yet the total universe may extend beyond what we can see, complicating the understanding of its shape.
  • One participant questions the very existence of an infinite universe, suggesting it may not be a coherent concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on the existence of a center in an infinite universe and the implications of its shape. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of "center" and "shape," as well as the unresolved nature of the universe's overall structure and the implications of the observable horizon.

AnthonyFB
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I just recently discovered that the sun may be the center of the galaxy and what not, but if the universe is infinite, there is no center. furthermore, dealing with the outer limits of the universe, what is the shape of the universe? it can be a sphere? wouldn't this mean that the terms circle, square, etc., being used to describe the shape of the infinite universe are erroneous and rather outdated?
 
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AnthonyFB said:
I just recently discovered that the sun may be the center of the galaxy and what not,
No, our sun is pretty far out to the side. This link has an image that gets you an idea of where our sun lies:
http://www.star.le.ac.uk/educ/ourgalaxy.html

(note: this is, of course, not an actual image of our galaxy, because we're in it! It's another galaxy that has similar structure to our own.)

AnthonyFB said:
furthermore, dealing with the outer limits of the universe, what is the shape of the universe?
We don't know what the overall shape of our universe is. There is a horizon that limits our vision, due to how our universe has expanded with time. Because of this horizon, the most we can say is that our universe is significantly larger than the part of it we can see. But we don't know what the overall shape is.
 
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We can safely say the universe is at least 13.7 bly in all directions from earth. We cannot deduce if it is larger [due to the horizon thing chalnoth noted]. It may curve back upon itself, or be utterly flat out to infinity. There is no known experiment [or observation] known to date capable of resolving that issue. We do, however, know the observable universe is temporally finite.
 
To determine center we need peripheries. An infinite universe by definition has no peripheries. Therefore it can have no center. Actually, it's even questionable that such a universe could even exist at all.
 

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