The Conservation of Momentum in a Completely Inelastic Collision.

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a completely inelastic collision between a bullet and a pendulum, focusing on the conservation of momentum and energy principles. The original poster questions the apparent contradiction in the textbook regarding momentum conservation during the collision and the influence of external forces afterward.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the conditions under which momentum is considered conserved, particularly during the collision, and the implications of external forces like tension and gravity. There is also a suggestion to use conservation of energy to determine the height 'y' after the collision.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring the nuances of momentum conservation during the collision versus after it. Some guidance has been provided regarding the impulse approximation and the use of energy conservation for post-collision analysis.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the impulse approximation, which suggests that during the brief moment of collision, external forces can be neglected. The original poster is grappling with the textbook's explanation and its implications for solving the problem.

student34
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Homework Statement



A bullet with mass mA and velocity vA makes a completely inelastic collision with a still pendulum of mass B. After the collision, the pendulum swings to a height of y from its equilibrium with the bullet in it. In terms of y, mB and mA, what is the initial velocity?

My textbook says that momentum is not conserved because of the external forces of tension and gravity acting on the system; this makes sense to me. But, in my book's work, it gets the answer by using Pinitial = Pfinal, where the initial is the bullet's mass multiplied by its velocity, and the final momentum is both masses multiplied by their velocity in the +x direction. How can they say that momentum is not conserved and then use the conservative equation?

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution

 
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student34 said:
My textbook says that momentum is not conserved because of the external forces of tension and gravity acting on the system; this makes sense to me.
In general, that's true.

But, in my book's work, it gets the answer by using Pinitial = Pfinal, where the initial is the bullet's mass multiplied by its velocity, and the final momentum is both masses multiplied by their velocity in the +x direction. How can they say that momentum is not conserved and then use the conservative equation?

During the collision one usually assumes that the forces of impact are so great, and act for so short a time, that other forces can be neglected. This is called the impulse approximation.
 
I think that the point being made is that DURING THE COLLISION (as Doc Al says) momentum is conserved.
After the collision you cannot use conservation of momentum to find the heigh 'y'.
You should use conservation of energy to find 'y' (KE = PE)
 
Oh I see.

Thanks for the replies
 

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