History The Curious History of Jaywalking

[jedishrfu]

The article talks about how car manufacturers waged a psychological battle to win ownership of the streets from pedestrians by convincing them to blame themselves for getting hit by a car.

 

[jrmichler]

I have done a lot of running, walking, and jaywalking. There were two times that I had to do a serious jump to avoid getting run over. Both of those times I was in a marked crosswalk with a green walk light. It seems that a pedestrian entering a crosswalk is outside the arc of vigilance of many drivers making a right turn from behind the pedestrian.

 

[jedishrfu]

In the US many cities allow you cross at an intersection while cars are trying make turns right thru the crosswalk. They are supposed to yield but some try to beat the pedestrians.

 

[DaveC426913]

Yes, I read an article about this long ago. Fascinating.
Fun fact: Jaywalking is not illegal (at least not in Toronto). A pedestrian is allowed to cross the street anywhere they want. However, they are required to yield to traffic. (So, if you cross anywhere you want and have an encounter with a vehicle you're in trouble.)My friend informed me of this after she had an encounter, and I didn't believe her until I looked it up in our city's bylaws.

 

[jedishrfu]

Yes, I read an article about this long ago. Fascinating.
Fun fact: Jaywalking is not illegal (at least not in Toronto). A pedestrian is allowed to cross the street anywhere they want. However, they are required to yield to traffic. (So, if you cross anywhere you want and have an encounter with a vehicle you're in trouble.)My friend informed me of this after she had an encounter, and I didn't believe her until I looked it up in our city's bylaws.

Snookered by those damnable car companies.

 

[berkeman]

It seems that a pedestrian entering a crosswalk is outside the arc of vigilance of many drivers

The other issue is that most modern cars have wider A-pillars to add crash strength, and wide A-pillars can hide a single pedestrian pretty effectively. Always move your head to keep checking behind your A-pillars when approaching an intersection or making a turn!

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/driving-test-tutorials/a-pillar-blind-spots.html

 

[vela]

In the US many cities allow you cross at an intersection while cars are trying make turns right thru the crosswalk. They are supposed to yield but some try to beat the pedestrians.

Often when you want to make a right turn on a red light, you're preoccupied with the oncoming traffic on the left, and when you see a break in the traffic, your instinct is to go. It's easy to miss a pedestrian on your right.

 

[sysprog]

Along similar lines with what @berkeman said about moving your head to look around, my drivers' ed instructor when I was a 15-year-old kid told me emphatically (inexact but substantially accurate quote) "don't just check your outside rear-view mirror $-$ always 'check your shoulder' $-$ you have a blind spot" $-$ he was right, of course [SciAm article Find Your Blind Spot] $-$ when I questioned it, he said "I guarantee I can stand somewhere behind you on your left where you can't see me from just looking in your mirrors if you don't move your head" $-$ we can reduce the likelihood of missing something important by always as necessary moving our heads to composit more complete sets of points of view, and also, let's please not fail to recgonize the 'time of check to time of use' problem $-$ if the situation might change, between the most recent time of checking on something and the time of relying on it to be still true, then we might need to check again to make sure that it's still true.

 

[DaveC426913]

always 'check your shoulder'

+1

I do this, and my neck is soon to start its 7th decade.

Pleased to say my boy, whom I am teaching, has learned this one.

 

[berkeman]

"I guarantee I can stand somewhere behind you on your left where you can't see me from just looking in your mirrors if you don't move your head"

Yeah, and even with lots of head movement, some cars still have a blind spot to the driver's left near the rear.

When I bought my current vehicle (a used Jeep Grand Cherokee), the previous owner had installed one of those little dome mirrors on the driver-side rear view mirror. I thought it was kind of dorky at first, but after a couple close calls with cars in my blind spot as I was trying to carefully merge left, I started using it and found that it exactly covers the left-over part my blind spot after all of the tradition shoulder-checks, etc.

 

[berkeman]

Here's another example... A friend of mine bought a Chevy Avalanche Pickup a few years back, and when I asked him how he liked it he said that the extra-large C-pillars that Chevy stylists chose to use were a real problem for his passenger side blind spot for his shoulder-checks:

https://di-uploads-pod1.dealerinspi...s/2015/07/Chevy-Avalanche-white1-1024x395.jpg

 

[DaveC426913]

Here's another example... A friend of mine bought a Chevy Avalanche Pickup a few years back, and when I asked him how he liked it he said that the extra-large C-pillars that Chevy stylists chose to use were a real problem for his passenger side blind spot for his shoulder-checks:

View attachment 299575
https://di-uploads-pod1.dealerinspi...s/2015/07/Chevy-Avalanche-white1-1024x395.jpg

Buuuuuut it's a truck...

Awkwardness (compared to a car) is kind of de rigueur.

 

[berkeman]

Buuuuuut it's a truck...

Awkwardness (compared to a car) is kind of de rigueur.

No, the F150 is a truck, not a foo-foo styling attempt at improving a pickup truck...

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/9Lleb/s1/2021-ford-f-150-limited.webp

 

[DaveC426913]

No, the F150 is a truck, not a foo-foo styling attempt at improving a pickup truck...

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/9Lleb/s1/2021-ford-f-150-limited.webp

Indeed. He got the worst of both worlds. It's not really a truck, but it's as awkward as a truck.

(And I know a thing or two about "neither fish nor fowl". I have a motorsailor that motors as poorly as a sailboat and sails as poorly as a motorboat. )

 

[sysprog]

Indeed. He got the worst of both worlds. It's not really a truck, but it's as awkward as a truck.

(And I know a thing or two about "neither fish nor fowl". I have a motorsailor that motors as poorly as a sailboat and sails as poorly as a motorboat. )

Is it anything like this VW Schwimmwagen?

 

[nsaspook]

You can Jaywalk in Oregon but don't do it with a white cane, carelessly.
https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_814.120

A person commits the offense of unlawful use of a white cane if the person uses or carries a white cane on the highways or any other public place of this state and the person is not a person who has limited vision or is not a person who is blind or a person who is deaf-blind.

 

[sysprog]

You can Jaywalk in Oregon but don't do it with a white cane, carelessly.
https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_814.120

I think that it's right to say that street-crossing other than along delineated crosswalks is not an offense if it's non-hazardous, and is an offense if it's hazardous, as Oregon does.

I think that a non-blind person intentionally raising a white cane in order to stop traffic, thus falsely claiming to be blind, in order to get deference that is accorded to the blind, is rightly considered to be thereby acting in a manner that is morally repugnant.

 

[sandy stone]

Yeah, and even with lots of head movement, some cars still have a blind spot to the driver's left near the rear.

When I bought my current vehicle (a used Jeep Grand Cherokee), the previous owner had installed one of those little dome mirrors on the driver-side rear view mirror. I thought it was kind of dorky at first, but after a couple close calls with cars in my blind spot as I was trying to carefully merge left, I started using it and found that it exactly covers the left-over part my blind spot after all of the tradition shoulder-checks, etc.

View attachment 299563

My new car has radar (I assume) detectors for cars in the blind spot on either side and alerts the driver when they are present. I still look over my shoulder, though.

 

[jedishrfu]

Never assume technology will do everything for you, you will always be disappointed. There are just too many stories to tell.

 

[Tom.G]

Fun fact: Jaywalking is not illegal (at least not in Toronto). A pedestrian is allowed to cross the street anywhere they want. However, they are required to yield to traffic. (So, if you cross anywhere you want and have an encounter with a vehicle you're in trouble.)

That at least makes sense, as opposed to California.

Vehicle Code - VEH​

DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD [21000 - 23336]​

( Division 11 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

CHAPTER 5. Pedestrians’ Rights and Duties [21949 - 21971]​

( Chapter 5 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

21955. ​

Between adjacent intersections controlled by traffic control signal devices or by police officers, pedestrians shall not cross the roadway at any place except in a crosswalk.
(Enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3.)

(above from:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/...tion.xhtml?sectionNum=21955.&lawCode=VEH)[/I]

 

[berkeman]

Yes, in Cali, it depends on whether there are traffic lights at adjacent intersections.

EDIT -- Although at least it kind of makes sense -- if there are traffic lights at the adjacent two intersections, it's probably a wide and busy street, in my experience.

 

[strangerep]

My new car has radar (I assume) detectors for cars in the blind spot on either side and alerts the driver when they are present. I still look over my shoulder, though.

Me too. A couple of times, when reversing, my car has slammed on its brakes to maximum but I never found out what it thought was behind me.

For maneuvering in carparks, I now find the camera system + proximity warning more reliable than direct visual.

Never assume technology will do everything for you, you will always be disappointed. There are just too many stories to tell.

Yes, but "tech + vigilance" is superior just vigilance and human reaction time. One time a neighbour was driving down a lane between garage blocks near where I live. A young child suddenly ran out and would have surely been killed or seriously injured except that the vehicle was equipped AEB (autonomous emergency braking).

 

[berkeman]

Me too. A couple of times, when reversing, my car has slammed on its brakes to maximum but I never found out what it thought was behind me.

And you're not worried about it also doing the same thing at speed on the expressyway? Is there any way to tap into your car's control unit to download the log and find the reason?

Do modern cars have the equivalent of "flight data recorders" that are accessible to the owners?

 

[strangerep]

And you're not worried about it also doing the same thing at speed on the expressyway?

Not until you said that.
But I've never had any incident at speed to make me distrust my car (Audi S5). Quite the opposite.

I guess I've come to trust it since there were some other times when the reason for slamming on the brakes did become apparent afterwards, e.g., an ibis or smaller bird strolling into harm's way.

[Edit:] There have also been plenty of times when a suicidal bird has flown directly across my path when I'm driving at speed, just barely missing me. None of these cases caused the AEB to activate. I guess this scenario must surely be one of the cases that Audi's engineers would anticipate.

Is there any way to tap into your car's control unit to download the log and find the reason?
Do modern cars have the equivalent of "flight data recorders" that are accessible to the owners?

It says nothing about that in the Audi owner's manual. I'll ask next time I take it in for service.

 

[jedishrfu]

Some of the stories I was referring to were the Tesla that ran under an 18 wheeler while it was crossing a highway. The AI was trained on 18 wheelers from the front and back but not broadside and the car tried to go under it. The driver trusted the Tesla self driving AI even though Tesla called it a driver assist.

The case of the woman tester in Arizona riding in a self driving test vehicle which killed a bicyclist riding on the road at night. She was instructed to not take over controls unless the AI wasnt recognizing the obstacle. She said the AI issued a warning then canceled it then issued it again then canceled it then issued it and boom the car hit the bicyclist and the tester faced vehicular homicide charges.

 

[Tom.G]

Do modern cars have the equivalent of "flight data recorders"

From various news reports and newspaper articles, here in the US the Police can access the recent data after an accident to read Speed, Steering position, Brake activity, Throttle position. I suspect, but have no knowledge of, that the storage may extend rather far into the past.

There have also been published reports that during a car chase, the police have remotely disabled a car to end the chase.

It has also been reported that an individual has taken remote control of a parked Tesla car, started it, and drove it a short distance without being in the car. I seem to recall a video of that but am still a little skeptical.

that are accessible to the owners?

Not that I am aware of... although I expect a Google search would turn up a way to read it.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[jedishrfu]

Some cars are equipped with OnStar, a service that will notify 911 in the event of an accident, can start and stop cars among other services.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar

and some info on car black boxes a component of the air bag system:

https://kodsiengineering.com/what-is-a-black-box/

it records 20 seconds before and 20 seconds after a collision which is enough data to reconstruct an accident:

https://rislone.com/blog/general/does-my-car-have-a-black-box/

Apparently, it doesn’t record your driving behavior long term, leave that to your cell phone…

 

[Orodruin]

Often when you want to make a right turn on a red light

… it is illegal in most jurisdictions.

Iirc it was supposedly introduced to save fuel, but is generally a traffic hazard where allowed. (And even more of a traffic hazard where not since nobody will be expecting it ..)

 

[berkeman]

… it is illegal in most jurisdictions in my country.

Fixed that for you...

 

[jedishrfu]

Curiously, I've seen something similar where a neighborhood petitioned the town to place no right-turn signs on certain streets to prevent folks from short-cutting through their neighborhood during peak traffic hours in the morning.

 

[Orodruin]

Fixed that for you...

Not really. It is illegal everywhere in Europe, most of South America, large parts of Asia, I don’t know any African land that allows it, and it is forbidden in both Australia and New Zeeland.

There are some exceptions to the rule such as allowing it when a sign permits it or when there is a small green right arrow light next to the red (although this is arguably giving right turners a green light …)

 

[jedishrfu]

The other issue is that most modern cars have wider A-pillars to add crash strength, and wide A-pillars can hide a single pedestrian pretty effectively. Always move your head to keep checking behind your A-pillars when approaching an intersection or making a turn!

View attachment 299538
https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/driving-test-tutorials/a-pillar-blind-spots.html

Not to mention that some cars have oversize side mirrors that can block children and short pedestrians especially if you are a short driver.

 

[DaveC426913]

It is illegal everywhere in Europe, most of South America, large parts of Asia, I don’t know any African land that allows it, and it is forbidden in both Australia and New Zeeland.

Perfectly legal in English-speaking Canada.

 

[Tom.G]

It started here in the USA at least 54 years ago in some states. I don't know how widespread it is now, so you better ask, or observe the local custom, before trying it.

My biggest gripe about blind spots is the nicely padded, and large, windshield pillars these days. Those pillars completely block seeing pedestrians waiting to cross when the signal turns Green; then we almost meet when I make a left turn. No intersects... so far.

 

[Orodruin]

Perfectly legal in English-speaking Canada.

Didn’t say it wasn’t. I listed places where it is illegal.

 

[berkeman]

My biggest gripe about blind spots is the nicely padded, and large, windshield pillars these days. Those pillars completely block seeing pedestrians waiting to cross when the signal turns Green; then we almost meet when I make a left turn.

Yeah, those are the A-pillars that I mentioned earlier in the thread. It turns out that there have been several attempts to mitigate that hazard while still maintaining the structural integrity of the A-pillar design. It looks like GM has filed a patent application for a new design with transparent A-pillars that are still structurally strong:

GM Patents See-Through Windshield Pillars for Better Visibility​

General Motors is working on a new perspective with a new pillar patent design.​

Justin Westbrook Mar 14, 2022

A new patent filing shows General Motors is developing a new design many of us have long pondered about: a car with transparent A-pillars that expand your field of view out of the windshield. GM's filing claims the design is intended mostly to improve driver awareness during left-handed turns, without jeopardizing the safety of the vehicle's crash structure.

The A-pillar, which is the support beam on either side of the windshield, has gone pretty much unchanged in its purpose for decades, both to stop the roof from caving in on the occupants in the event of a rollover crash while also offering a pathway for frontal crash forces to be distributed up and down around the front-seat passengers via the floor rails and roof structure. The only downside is the pillar's location, which is directly in the line of sight between the driver and the road, hence the desire for a new solution.

With the latest advancements in material technology, many of us have wondered if it would be possible to keep the A-pillar and all of its structural importance, and simply make it out of a transparent material. Some automakers have attempted to achieve pillar-windows in the past. The old Buick Century had a lovely windshield that wrapped its corners to meet the door, though it lacked much safety, considering there was virtually no A-pillar.

Some modern cars, like the Renault Espace and Grand Scenic, have massive dashboard windows in front of the doors that's close to the same design. A few years ago, Continental announced a camera-and-screen setup that projected an exterior image onto a screen attached to the A-pillar. Jag had a transparent pillar patent back in 2014, Toyota had a similar concept back in 2017 that involved trick mirrors, and now it looks like the engineers at General Motors may be finally giving truly transparent pillars a serious shot.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/general-motors-a-pillar-patent-gm-car-design/

 

[Mark44]

(So, if you cross anywhere you want and have an encounter with a vehicle you're in trouble.)

Or as a friend said to me many years ago, "God favors the swift."

I do this, and my neck is soon to start its 7th decade.

Youngster...

 

[DaveC426913]

Didn’t say it wasn’t. I listed places where it is illegal.

I didn't say you said it wasn't.