The Curious History of Jaywalking

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    Curious History
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the history and implications of jaywalking, particularly focusing on pedestrian safety, driver awareness, and the influence of car manufacturers on public perception. Participants share personal experiences, legal perspectives, and technical insights related to pedestrian and driver interactions in various contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the psychological tactics used by car manufacturers to shift blame onto pedestrians for accidents, suggesting a broader societal issue.
  • Experiences shared by participants indicate that even in marked crosswalks, pedestrians may be at risk due to driver inattention, particularly when drivers are making turns.
  • Legal perspectives on jaywalking vary, with some noting that in places like Toronto, pedestrians can cross anywhere but must yield to traffic, while others mention specific laws in Oregon regarding jaywalking and the use of white canes.
  • Technical discussions arise about vehicle design, particularly the impact of wider A-pillars on driver visibility and the potential for blind spots that can obscure pedestrians.
  • Participants reflect on the importance of head movement and awareness while driving to mitigate blind spots, sharing personal anecdotes and advice from driving instructors.
  • There are mentions of specific vehicle models and their design features that contribute to visibility issues, leading to further debate about the adequacy of these designs for safety.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion includes multiple competing views regarding pedestrian safety and the responsibilities of drivers versus pedestrians. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of current laws or vehicle designs in ensuring safety for pedestrians.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the legal implications of jaywalking in different jurisdictions and the conditions under which it may be considered hazardous or non-hazardous. Discussions also highlight the limitations of vehicle design in addressing blind spots.

  • #31
berkeman said:
Fixed that for you... :wink:
Not really. It is illegal everywhere in Europe, most of South America, large parts of Asia, I don’t know any African land that allows it, and it is forbidden in both Australia and New Zeeland.

There are some exceptions to the rule such as allowing it when a sign permits it or when there is a small green right arrow light next to the red (although this is arguably giving right turners a green light …)
 
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  • #32
berkeman said:
The other issue is that most modern cars have wider A-pillars to add crash strength, and wide A-pillars can hide a single pedestrian pretty effectively. Always move your head to keep checking behind your A-pillars when approaching an intersection or making a turn!

View attachment 299538
https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/driving-test-tutorials/a-pillar-blind-spots.html

Not to mention that some cars have oversize side mirrors that can block children and short pedestrians especially if you are a short driver.
 
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  • #33
Orodruin said:
It is illegal everywhere in Europe, most of South America, large parts of Asia, I don’t know any African land that allows it, and it is forbidden in both Australia and New Zeeland.
Perfectly legal in English-speaking Canada.
 
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  • #34
It started here in the USA at least 54 years ago in some states. I don't know how widespread it is now, so you better ask, or observe the local custom, before trying it.

My biggest gripe about blind spots is the nicely padded, and large, windshield pillars these days. Those pillars completely block seeing pedestrians waiting to cross when the signal turns Green; then we almost meet when I make a left turn. No intersects... so far.
 
  • #35
DaveC426913 said:
Perfectly legal in English-speaking Canada.
Didn’t say it wasn’t. I listed places where it is illegal.
 
  • #36
Tom.G said:
My biggest gripe about blind spots is the nicely padded, and large, windshield pillars these days. Those pillars completely block seeing pedestrians waiting to cross when the signal turns Green; then we almost meet when I make a left turn.
Yeah, those are the A-pillars that I mentioned earlier in the thread. It turns out that there have been several attempts to mitigate that hazard while still maintaining the structural integrity of the A-pillar design. It looks like GM has filed a patent application for a new design with transparent A-pillars that are still structurally strong:

1657201313708.png


GM Patents See-Through Windshield Pillars for Better Visibility​

General Motors is working on a new perspective with a new pillar patent design.​

Justin Westbrook Mar 14, 2022

A new patent filing shows General Motors is developing a new design many of us have long pondered about: a car with transparent A-pillars that expand your field of view out of the windshield. GM's filing claims the design is intended mostly to improve driver awareness during left-handed turns, without jeopardizing the safety of the vehicle's crash structure.

The A-pillar, which is the support beam on either side of the windshield, has gone pretty much unchanged in its purpose for decades, both to stop the roof from caving in on the occupants in the event of a rollover crash while also offering a pathway for frontal crash forces to be distributed up and down around the front-seat passengers via the floor rails and roof structure. The only downside is the pillar's location, which is directly in the line of sight between the driver and the road, hence the desire for a new solution.

With the latest advancements in material technology, many of us have wondered if it would be possible to keep the A-pillar and all of its structural importance, and simply make it out of a transparent material. Some automakers have attempted to achieve pillar-windows in the past. The old Buick Century had a lovely windshield that wrapped its corners to meet the door, though it lacked much safety, considering there was virtually no A-pillar.

Some modern cars, like the Renault Espace and Grand Scenic, have massive dashboard windows in front of the doors that's close to the same design. A few years ago, Continental announced a camera-and-screen setup that projected an exterior image onto a screen attached to the A-pillar. Jag had a transparent pillar patent back in 2014, Toyota had a similar concept back in 2017 that involved trick mirrors, and now it looks like the engineers at General Motors may be finally giving truly transparent pillars a serious shot.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/general-motors-a-pillar-patent-gm-car-design/
 
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  • #37
DaveC426913 said:
(So, if you cross anywhere you want and have an encounter with a vehicle you're in trouble.)
Or as a friend said to me many years ago, "God favors the swift."

DaveC426913 said:
I do this, and my neck is soon to start its 7th decade.
Youngster...
 
  • #38
Orodruin said:
Didn’t say it wasn’t. I listed places where it is illegal.
I didn't say you said it wasn't. :wink:
 

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