The different generators of canonical transformations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of canonical transformations in the phase space of a one degree of freedom mechanical system, specifically focusing on the relationship between two types of generators of these transformations: the function F and the function W. The scope includes theoretical aspects of mechanics and the application of Poisson brackets.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the process of transitioning between phase space coordinates through a canonical transformation and introduces the function F as a generator of this transformation.
  • The same participant presents equations relating the derivatives of phase space coordinates to the function W, suggesting it is also a generator of the transformation.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the use of Poisson brackets in the context of canonical transformations, indicating that they do not find this in their mechanics text and requests references.
  • A later reply mentions that the participant found a solution in an old paper, which discusses the relation between Hamilton's principal functions and the Hamiltonian in Hamilton-Jacobi theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between the functions F and W, and there is uncertainty regarding the availability of references for the Poisson bracket approach in canonical transformations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on the definitions and properties of the functions F and W, as well as the absence of references that some participants seek for further understanding.

andresB
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Consider the phase space of a one degree of freedom mechanical system. We can pass from one phase space coordinates to another phase space coordinates via a canonical transformation. I want to focus on 1-parameter canonical transformations,
$$(q_{0},p_{0})\rightarrow(q_{\lambda},p_{\lambda})$$
where ##\lambda\in[0,\infty)## parametrize the transformation.

By the standard theory, there exist a function ##F=F_{1}(q_{0},q_{\lambda};\lambda)## such that
$$p_{0}\frac{dq_{0}}{dt}-H=p_{\lambda}\frac{dq_{\lambda}}{dt}-K+\frac{dF_{1}}{dt}.$$
##F## is called the generator of the transformation, and the following equation follows
$$p_{0} =\frac{\partial F_{1}}{\partial q_{0}},\qquad p_{\lambda}=-\frac{\partial F_{1}}{\partial q_{\lambda}}.$$

Now, also by standard theory, there exist a function ##W=W(q,p;\lambda)## such that the transformation can be obtained via the Poisson brackets using the equations
$$\frac{dq}{d\lambda} =\left\{ q,W\right\}, $$
$$\frac{dp}{d\lambda} =\left\{ p,W\right\}.$$
##W## is again sometimes called the generator of the transformation.

What is the relation between ##F## and ##W ##??
 
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andresB said:
Now, also by standard theory, there exist a function W=W(q,p;λ) such that the transformation can be obtained via the Poisson brackets using the equations
As a layman I do not find this transformation via the Poisson brackets in my text of mechanics. Could you show me some web reference if you know any ?
 
anuttarasammyak said:
As a layman I do not find this transformation via the Poisson brackets in my text of mechanics. Could you show me some web reference if you know any ?
I don't know any good online references. My knowledge of the topics comes from Goldstein 2nd edition, section 9.5.
 
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