The speed of a curve in different coordinate systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of speed for a curve in different coordinate systems, specifically comparing Cartesian, cylindrical, and spherical coordinates. Participants explore how the transition from flat Euclidean space to curved space may affect the speed of a curve, as well as the implications of reparametrization and the definitions of speed in mathematical versus physical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the speed of a curve changes when transitioning from Cartesian to cylindrical or spherical coordinates, seeking insights from experienced members.
  • Another participant challenges the notion of "speed of a curve," suggesting that a curve itself does not possess speed, but rather it is the length of the tangent vector at any point that could represent the speed of an object moving along the curve, which is an intrinsic property independent of the coordinate system.
  • A participant notes that while the second derivative of the position vector, ##||\ddot{{\mathbf r}}||##, depends on the coordinate system, the first derivative, ##||\dot{{\mathbf r}}||##, does not, indicating a distinction in how speed is perceived in different contexts.
  • Another contribution mentions that even within the same coordinate system, a curve can be reparametrized from non-unit-speed to unit-speed, raising uncertainty about whether a curve that is unit-speed in one coordinate system remains so in another.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the term "unit speed," with a participant asserting that it refers to a curve parameterized by arc length, which always results in a unit-length tangent vector, linking this to the concept of velocity in physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the concept of speed as it relates to curves in various coordinate systems. There is no consensus on whether the speed of a curve is affected by the choice of coordinate system or how to interpret the term "unit speed." The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential confusion surrounding the definitions of speed in mathematical and physical contexts, as well as the implications of reparametrization on the properties of curves. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of curves and their parametrization across different coordinate systems.

kkz23691
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Hello,

If for a curve in Cartesian coordinates ##||\dot{{\mathbf r}}||=\mbox{const}## (i.e. the curve is constant speed) will the speed of the curve change in cylindrical and spherical coordinates?
Could someone experienced share how the transition from flat Euclidian space to curved space alters the speed of the curve?

Thanks!
 
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I am puzzled by the expression "speed of a curve". A curve just sits there! It doesn't have any "speed". But I assume you mean the length of the tangent vector to the curve at any point which could also be thought of as the speed of an object moving along the curve. That is an "intrinsic" property of the curve, it does not depend on the coordinate system.
 
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HallsofIvy, I hear you :) "Unit speed" seems to be a term used in math.
It turns out, ##||\ddot{{\mathbf r}}||## depends on the coordinate system; it wasn't obvious to me that ##||\dot{{\mathbf r}}||## doesn't.
 
To add this - even in the same coordinate system a curve can be reparametrized from a non-unit-speed to unit-speed. If a curve is already unit-speed in some coordinate system, I am uncertain why it would still be unit-speed in any other coordinate system.
 
kkz23691 said:
HallsofIvy, I hear you :) "Unit speed" seems to be a term used in math.
It turns out, ##||\ddot{{\mathbf r}}||## depends on the coordinate system; it wasn't obvious to me that ##||\dot{{\mathbf r}}||## doesn't.
I would be very surprised if "speed", a physics term, were used in math. What you are calling a "unit speed curve" seems to be, mathematically, a "curve parameterized by arc length". Such an expression for a curve always has the property that the derivative (x, y, z), the "direction vector" of the curve, with respect to the parameter, arclength, is a unit-length tangent vector. If you think of the parameter as "time", t, the that derivative is the velocity vector but that is again a "physics", not "math" concept.
 

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