The sun moves through space, right?

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phinds
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In a thread that was just open and almost immediately closed:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=546278

there was a link to a possible crackpot site, but one part of the discussion said simply that the sun (the whole solar system) moves through space. A graphic demonstrating this showed (incorrectly I suspect) the sun moving perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic and the planets therefore having a helical motion through space. As I said, I suspect the actual motion is at an angle to that plane, so the motion is more complex than the graphic. BUT ... I contend that the fundamental concept is perfectly valid.

Have I got something wrong there somewhere?

EDIT: I was going to PM the mentor who closed the other thread to ask that he/she take a look at this one, but there's no indication as to who closed the thread (or WHY for that matter, though I assume they just took a quick look and concluded that the linked site was a crackpot site, which it might have been).
 

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I see no reason to believe that our sun, our solar system, and even our galaxy aren't moving through space in a very complex way.

But if there is nothing available to measure relatively to, then it'll be tough to find out one way or another.
 
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Dotini
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Respected science writer and Cambridge educated physicist Nigel Calder writes that our solar system is orbiting through the four spiral arms of our galaxy, the Milky Way, on a schedule of once every 240 million years, and furthermore, that our system is affected by interactions with birthing and dying stars encountered along the way. It would seem to be rather provincial to deny that the galactic frame of reference is vastly more significant, and thus to be preferred, than considering the solar system with respect to itself alone.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
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phinds
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I see no reason to believe that our sun, our solar system, and even our galaxy aren't moving through space in a very complex way.

But if there is nothing available to measure relatively to, then it'll be tough to find out one way or another.
Actually, there IS something to measure it to, and that has been done. The Milky Way is moving relative to the CMB and the solar system is moving relative to the Milky Way.
 
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Actually, there IS something to measure it to, and that has been done. The Milky Way is moving relative to the CMB and the solar system is moving relative to the Milky Way.
Yes for sure. And I would have to guess that the milky way moves relative to Mass A and Mass A moves with respect to Mass B. Who knows where it ends.
 
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phinds
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Yes for sure. And I would have to guess that the milky way moves relative to Mass A and Mass A moves with respect to Mass B. Who knows where it ends.
For sure. To get any kind of graph of the motion, as was presented in the site I mentioned, one would have to choose a Frame of Reference and I think it probably impossible to find one that would result in the particular graphic used in that link (the sun moving in a straight line, if you can believe it) but the fundamental concept seemed prefectly reasonable, so I just want to make sure I wasn't WAY off track (didn't really think I was).
 
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marcus
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there was a link to a possible crackpot site, but one part of the discussion said simply that the sun (the whole solar system) moves through space. A graphic demonstrating this showed (incorrectly I suspect) the sun moving perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic and the planets therefore having a helical motion through space. As I said, I suspect the actual motion is at an angle to that plane, so the motion is more complex than the graphic. BUT ... I contend that the fundamental concept is perfectly valid.
...
I think I know the crackpot YouTube you mean. We had a thread in a scienceforum where I mentor and I just dragged it to the "Alternative Theories" forum, I think, or else I erased it. Can't recall which. As I recall it is 5 minutes with the first four minutes the guy makes a big deal about saying something really obvious. That if the sun is pictured going in an approx straight, then the planets spiral. He got a great sense of self-importance pointing out the obvious. Then after 4 minutes he moved into goofy wacko territory for the final minute. Some kind of torus picture.

YOU ARE RIGHT there is about a 60 degree tilt. Or 30 degrees from orthogonal. The plane of the planets is not orthogonal to the sun velocity. It is tilted 30 degrees. But the sun is going 240 km/s or so, and the earth is only 30 km/s around the sun. So the spiral does not double back or anythng. The forwards motion is overwhelmingly dominant. So it is approximately like a stretched out slinky spring.

Not sure what the gist of your question is. Of course the solar system is moving thru space in the CMB restframe. It is going 370 km/s in direction of Leo. they have to take the CMB dipole out of the data---big doppler hotspot around Leo, and coldspot in other direction.

And it is also orbiting the center of Milky. And Milky is moving thru space in CMB restframe and there is some partial cancelation, like living on a whirling frisby. But the most basic thing is CMB rest. the thing is, so what? the YouTube was terrible. Or am I missing something?
 
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That's Nassim Haramein, he's an undisputed cult leader-esque charlatan. He has videos about crop circles and aliens influencing ancient Earth history. Avoid like the plague.
 
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phinds
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I think I know the crackpot YouTube you mean. We had a thread in a scienceforum where I mentor and I just dragged it to the "Alternative Theories" forum, I think, or else I erased it. Can't recall which. As I recall it is 5 minutes with the first four minutes the guy makes a big deal about saying something really obvious. That if the sun is pictured going in an approx straight, then the planets spiral. He got a great sense of self-importance pointing out the obvious. Then after 4 minutes he moved into goofy wacko territory for the final minute. Some kind of torus picture.
yep, that was the one

YOU ARE RIGHT there is about a 60 degree tilt. Or 30 degrees from orthogonal. The plane of the planets is not orthogonal to the sun velocity. It is tilted 30 degrees. But the sun is going 240 km/s or so, and the earth is only 30 km/s around the sun. So the spiral does not double back or anythng. The forwards motion is overwhelmingly dominant. So it is approximately like a stretched out slinky spring.
Yeah, as I said in the post just before yours, that's about what I expected.

Not sure what the gist of your question is. Of course the solar system is moving thru space in the CMB restframe. It is going 370 km/s in direction of Leo. they have to take the CMB dipole out of the data---big doppler hotspot around Leo, and coldspot in other direction.

And it is also orbiting the center of Milky. And Milky is moving thru space in CMB restframe and there is some partial cancelation, like living on a whirling frisby. But the most basic thing is CMB rest. the thing is, so what? the YouTube was terrible. Or am I missing something?
Nope, not missing anything. I was just taken aback by the abrupt locking of the thread when I had just made a post that I thought was perfectly reasonable (and it was regarding the first part where he was belaboring the obvious but doing it badly) --- clearly the lock had nothing to do with me and I was being overly sensitive.

As always, thanks for the thoughtful response
 

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