Thermal dependancy of conductance

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    Conductance Thermal
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermal dependency of electrical conductance, specifically whether conductance increases or decreases with temperature changes. Participants explore this concept in the context of different materials, including metals and semiconductors, and analyze a specific formula related to conductivity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between temperature and conductivity, noting that resistance increases with temperature and initially assuming conductivity would decrease as well.
  • Another participant clarifies that for normal metals, conductivity typically decreases with increasing temperature, while for semiconductors, conductivity increases due to more charge carriers being promoted into the conduction band.
  • A participant identifies the materials in question as various types of steel and suggests that if iron is the dominant element, resistance would generally increase with temperature.
  • It is noted that the interpretation of the formula may be problematic, with a participant explaining the roles of the variables and suggesting that conductivity decreases with temperature if the coefficient alpha is positive.
  • Another participant proposes a rearranged formula that implies conductivity decreases with temperature if alpha is less than zero, providing a specific value for alpha for 304 steel.
  • There is a mention of carbon filaments, which behave differently as their conductivity increases with temperature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that for common metals, conductivity decreases with temperature, but there is disagreement regarding the behavior of semiconductors and the interpretation of the formula. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific implications of the formula for the materials in question.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential confusion regarding the definitions and roles of variables in the formula, as well as the specific material properties of different types of steel and their thermal behavior.

NEWO
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I am struggling to work out out whether the conductance will increase or decrease with an increase in temperature. This I know sounds so basic yet i can't grasp something. I know that resistance increases with temperature so I would assume that conductivity will decrease. However a formula I have doesn't show this trend. below is the equation in question;

\sigma ^' = \frac {\sigma} {1+ \alpha \delta T}

{my latex command wouldn't work so deleted the tex command to show the equation}

where

\delta{T}=T-T^{'}

\sigma^{'}= conductivity at common temperature = 293K

\sigma= the conductivity at the measured temperature
T^{'}= the common temperature
T=Measured Temperature


which will then mean that;

\sigma= \sigma^{'}\beta

where
\beta =1+\alpha \delta{T}

which says that the conductivity will increase with temperature, from what I understand this doesn't make sense to me!

Please Help

Thanks

n
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Do you know what type of material this is for?

Note that for normal metals, it would be true that one would expect the conductivity to drop with increasing temperature. But for a semiconductor, this is not the case. Since increasing the temperature will promote more charge carriers into the conduction band, you will in fact increase its conductivity as the temperature increases.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
Do you know what type of material this is for?

Note that for normal metals, it would be true that one would expect the conductivity to drop with increasing temperature. But for a semiconductor, this is not the case. Since increasing the temperature will promote more charge carriers into the conduction band, you will in fact increase its conductivity as the temperature increases.

Zz.

its for the following material

304, 316, 533, and 508 steel!

thanks for your relply,
 
NEWO said:
its for the following material

304, 316, 533, and 508 steel!

thanks for your relply,
I don't know exactly what kind of steels are labeled 304,316,533,508 ,but if Fe is highly dominant element in the alloy I would always expect that resistance increases as the temperature increases in the vast range of temperatures where techical applications of steels are present.
 
As ZapperZ wrote, in common metals, conductivity decreases with temperature. The problem is in the interpretation of the terms of your formula. \sigma is for T, \sigma' is for T', and \delta T is (T'– T). And all is OK if \alpha >0.

PS: Conductivity of carbon filaments (as in Edison electrical bulbs) increase with temperature.
 
So therefore am I right in saying that,

\sigma=\frac{ \sigma'}{ (1+\alpha\lbrackT-T'))

Which implies that conductivity will decrease with temperature as long as alpha is less than 0

by the way for 304 steel alpha is 0.00172K^{-1}

Thanks for you inputs!

Newo

p.s why won't my latex command work??
 
Last edited:
(As tex do not works I broke the tags with an space)

When [t ex]\alpha>0[/t ex], conductivity decreases with temperature:

[t ex]\sigma'={\sigma\over 1+\alpha(T'-T)}[/t ex]
If [t ex]\alpha>0[/t ex], when [t ex]T'[/t ex] increases, [t ex]\sigma'[/t ex] decreases.
 

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