Thermal Equilibrium: Exchange of Kinetic Energy

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter boletoms
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Thermal
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of thermal equilibrium and the exchange of kinetic energy during atomic collisions, particularly focusing on elastic collisions in one and two dimensions. Participants explore the implications of these collisions on energy conservation and thermalization.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents formulas for elastic collisions in one dimension and suggests that energy exchange leads to thermal equilibrium.
  • Another participant argues that the formulas apply only in one dimension and that colliding particles will not thermalize in this scenario.
  • A different participant discusses two-dimensional collisions and presents equations for the velocities after collisions, questioning the conservation of energy when initial velocities are not zero.
  • Some participants request to move the discussion to the Classical Physics forum, indicating a perceived misclassification of the topic.
  • There are claims that the cited formulas do not appear in the referenced Wikipedia article and are incorrect, with calls for clarification on the correct application of the formulas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the correctness of the formulas and their applicability to different dimensions. There is no consensus on the validity of the claims made about energy conservation and thermalization.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the dimensionality of collisions and the specific conditions under which energy conservation applies. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the relationship between elastic collisions and thermal equilibrium.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in classical mechanics, particularly those exploring the dynamics of elastic collisions and thermal equilibrium concepts.

boletoms
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
as we know that atomic collisions are perfectly ellastic
perfectly ellastic collisions are given by
v1=u1(m1-m2)+2(m2)u2 / m1+m2
and v2=u2(m2-m1)+2(m1)u1 / m1+m2
when m1=m2
v1=u2
v2=u1

we know heat is stored in the form of vibrational energy(kinetic energy)
so to exchange energy they should collide
according to ellasticity the should exchange their energies
T1° will become T2° and T1° will become T2°
the how will they come to equillibrium
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Your formulas apply only in one dimension. In one dimension, it is true that colliding particles will not thermalize.
 
this is just a doubt in ellasticity and not thermodynamics
in 2d collisions
when m1=m2
v1=(u2+u1)cos(x/2)
v2=(u2-u1)sin(x/2) [scource : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_collision ]
initial total energy(T.E)=1/2(m^2)(u1^2 +u2^2)
final T.E=1/2(m^2)((u2-u1)^2)

according to physics laws initial T.E should be equal to final T.E

hence , 1/2(m^2)(u1^2 +u2^2)=1/2(m^2)((u2-u1)^2)

(u1^2 +u2^2)=((u2-u1)^2)

which is only possible when u1 or u2 is equal to zero
but when u1 & u2 are not equal to zero they violate the law of conservation of energy

why is that so?
 
Last edited:
Please move this to the Classical Physics forum. This has nothing to do with Quantum Mechanics.
 
Bill_K said:
Please move this to the Classical Physics forum. This has nothing to do with Quantum Mechanics.



could you tell me how to do it
i'm new to PF
 
Your formulas do not appear in the wikipedia article that you cite, and they are not correct.
 
Avodyne said:
Your formulas do not appear in the wikipedia article that you cite, and they are not correct.
look for 2d collisions i just modified the relative initial velocity as u1+u2

and before that please substitute m1=m2
 
Your formulas are from the 1d section.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K