Thermodynamics, manipulating partial derivatives

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on manipulating partial derivatives in thermodynamics, specifically relating to the coefficients of thermal expansion (α) and compressibility (β). The user successfully derived expressions for volume (V) as a function of temperature (T) and pressure (P) but sought clarification on the validity of separating partial derivatives in this context. The consensus among participants confirms that the separation is valid under specific conditions, namely holding pressure or temperature constant while manipulating the differentials. This understanding is crucial for correctly applying thermodynamic principles in multivariable calculus.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of partial derivatives in multivariable calculus
  • Familiarity with thermodynamic concepts such as thermal expansion and compressibility
  • Knowledge of differential equations
  • Basic principles of thermodynamics, particularly in relation to volume, temperature, and pressure
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of Maxwell's relations in thermodynamics
  • Learn about the application of the chain rule in multivariable calculus
  • Explore the implications of the Clapeyron equation in phase transitions
  • Investigate the relationship between thermodynamic potentials and their derivatives
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for students of thermodynamics, particularly those studying multivariable calculus, as well as educators seeking to clarify the application of partial derivatives in physical contexts.

MexChemE
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Hello PF! It's been a while since I last posted here. I have come across a problem in my textbook, which asks me to find expressions for V as a function of T and P, starting from the coefficients of thermal expansion and compressibility.
\alpha = \frac{1}{V} \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial T} \right)_P
\beta = -\frac{1}{V} \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial P} \right)_T
I've already solved the problem, I separated the differentials and integrated, then cleared for V. Now, here's where I have trouble. This is how I manipulated the differentials:
\alpha \ dT= \frac{1}{V} \ dV
\beta \ dP= -\frac{1}{V} \ dV
Both my professor, and Castellan's PChem text say this is correct, however, neither my professor nor the book explain why the separation of a partial derivative works in this case. Math professors have always said we can't "break" a partial derivative the same way we do for a regular derivative. If anyone could offer some insight about this case, it would be very helpful. Thanks!
 
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\alpha dT=\frac{dV}{V} under the condition p=const or dp=0
\beta dP=\frac{-dV}{V} under the condition T=const or dT=0
You need these conditions.
 
If V is a function V(P,T) of P and T, then
dV=\left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial P}\right)_TdP+\left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial T}\right)_PdT

Chet
 
Thank you both! I understand now, I thought they were just magically turning the partial derivative into a regular one. I wasn't aware of how both coefficients relate to the differential of V. We haven't covered partial derivatives or differentials of multivariable functions in Calc III, my professor is going a bit slowly. But we have started to use them in Thermodynamics I, so everything I know about the subject right now is from what I have read on my own.

Oh, and I'm sorry you had to move my thread, I thought it could be posted in the physics section since I wasn't asking for help on solving the problem itself, just a doubt with the math involved, but I'll be more careful next time.
 

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