Theseus' ship - what is your view?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the philosophical problem of identity as illustrated by the thought experiment of Theseus' ship. Participants explore the implications of replacing parts of an object over time and what it means for that object to retain its identity. The conversation touches on various analogies, including personal identity, objects like cars and socks, and even corporations, examining the nature of sameness and change.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the identity of an object, like Theseus' ship, may change as its components are replaced, questioning at what point it ceases to be the original object.
  • Others draw parallels to personal identity, suggesting that despite the replacement of cells in the human body over time, the self remains the same.
  • A participant introduces the analogy of a gun passed down through generations, where parts are replaced yet it is still considered the same object.
  • Some argue that language complicates the discussion of identity, as it was not designed to address such philosophical problems.
  • There are claims that a corporation can undergo complete changes in its assets and personnel yet still be considered the same corporation legally.
  • One participant suggests that any change, no matter how small, could imply that the object is no longer the same, raising questions about the nature of change itself.
  • Another participant reflects on the idea that everything exists as a result of transformation, questioning when an object fundamentally changes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of identity and change, with no clear consensus reached. Some agree that identity can be maintained despite changes, while others argue that any alteration results in a new identity. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of definitions surrounding identity and change, as well as the dependence on philosophical interpretations of what constitutes the "whole" of an object or self.

  • #31
I think it was Aristotle who suggested, if not said exactly, this quote:

"God is a thought thinking itself."

Whatever else it may mean, it sounds nice. Thought it sounded relevant.
 
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  • #32
Well what happens if we get all our biological parts, minus the brain, replaced with synthetic or bionic replacements. Or even have some way of replacing our brain, thus eleminating all biological components?
 
  • #33
NavyMan said:
Well what happens if we get all our biological parts, minus the brain, replaced with synthetic or bionic replacements. Or even have some way of replacing our brain, thus eleminating all biological components?

The conclusion I have reached is that if you are going to apply the word entity (in the strictest sense) to something than that something must be a pure thing which never changes even a little bit. If it did change than it would be something else and have another name. So mathematical entities are good objects to label but a physical object is not. We may use the word loosly in everyday language but if the word is to be scrutinised than there is no hope if used on physical objects. Paradox will natually emerge.
 

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