Thinking on a Tangent: Universe & Beyond

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of extra dimensions in relation to understanding the fundamental properties of particles such as photons and electrons. Participants explore the implications of these theories on our knowledge of the universe, questioning the necessity and productivity of investigating higher dimensions when foundational aspects of particle properties remain unclear.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the value of exploring extra dimensions when fundamental questions about the nature of particles like photons and electrons remain unanswered.
  • Others argue that the lack of understanding about particle properties does not preclude the exploration of higher dimensions, suggesting that such theories may provide useful insights.
  • One participant emphasizes that theories involving higher dimensions, such as string theory and brane theory, aim to uncover the reasons behind particle properties, which are currently not well understood.
  • There is a suggestion that the properties we attribute to particles, like mass and charge, could potentially be influenced by the existence of higher dimensions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance and productivity of investigating extra dimensions in light of unresolved questions about particle properties. No consensus is reached regarding the necessity of such explorations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations in current understanding of particle properties and the speculative nature of theories involving higher dimensions. Participants acknowledge the complexity and uncertainty surrounding these topics.

wolram
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Why do people think about extra dimensions to aide our knowledge of the universe, when we do not even know what forces control the elements?
i mean what controls the properties of the photon, the electron, they are well known in the literature, but what gives them there properties, why should a photon be a photon?
 
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wolram said:
Why do people think about extra dimensions to aide our knowledge of the universe, when we do not even know what forces control the elements?
i mean what controls the properties of the photon, the electron, they are well known in the literature, but what gives them there properties, why should a photon be a photon?


Geez Wolram, that's not a very sharp question. Why is ANYTHING what it is and not something else? It is perfectly true that quantum mechanics says nothing about the nature of reality, and has passed that characteristic on to its descendants quantum field theory and the standard model. But any attempt to get beyond the scrim of formalism has to use what tools it can. Saying we should not look at something that might be useful because we don't understand something else doesn't strike me as very productive.
 
selfAdjoint said:
Geez Wolram, that's not a very sharp question. Why is ANYTHING what it is and not something else? It is perfectly true that quantum mechanics says nothing about the nature of reality, and has passed that characteristic on to its descendants quantum field theory and the standard model. But any attempt to get beyond the scrim of formalism has to use what tools it can. Saying we should not look at something that might be useful because we don't understand something else doesn't strike me as very productive.

Lack of sleep :biggrin:

But surly if we knew why a photon is what it is and allowed in this universe
it would be more productive than looking for ghosts.
 
But that's just it; we don't know why a photon is what it is, or what gives an electron its properties. That's exactly what the theories involving higher dimensions are trying to discover. Research has to start with theory, or no new understanding can take place. String theories and brane theories are attempts to understand these questions that have not yielded to our understanding so far.

I mean, what if the existence of higher dimensions, and the complex folding of matter and energy in these extra, unseen directions are the cause of the properties we call "mass" or "charge"? Then, without researching these theories, we'd never "know what forces control the elements".
 

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