To what is X_{-m}+α(a)Y_{-m} equal?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of sequences defined in an integral domain with characteristic 2, specifically focusing on the sequences \(X_m(a)\) and \(Y_m(a)\). Participants explore the relationships between these sequences, particularly for negative indices, and the implications of their degrees. The conversation includes attempts to prove certain properties and relationships using induction and algebraic manipulations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 introduces the sequences \(X_m(a)\) and \(Y_m(a)\) and states their definitions and degrees, questioning the correctness of using induction for proving these properties.
  • Post 2 proposes an approach to express \(X_{-m}(a) + \alpha(a)Y_{-m}(a)\) in terms of \(X_m(a)\) and \(Y_m(a)\) but seeks clarification on the continuation of the proof.
  • Post 3 presents an alternative method to express \(X_{-m}(a)\) and \(Y_{-m}(a)\) and questions the correctness of this approach.
  • Post 4 raises a concern about taking inverses in an integral domain, suggesting that this might be a mistake in the reasoning of earlier posts, while also affirming the use of induction if done correctly.
  • Post 5 reiterates the concern about inverses and elaborates on the induction process, providing a detailed breakdown of the base case and inductive step, while expressing confusion about the variables used in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain algebraic manipulations, particularly regarding the use of inverses in an integral domain. There is no consensus on the correctness of the proposed methods or the conclusions drawn from them.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of the characteristic of the integral domain and the implications this has on the algebraic operations being discussed. The discussion also highlights potential confusion regarding the variables \(a\) and \(t\) in the context of the sequences.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let $F$ be an integral domain with characteristic $2$. Let $a\in F[t]$ and $a \notin F$. Let $\alpha (a)$ be a root of the equation $x^2+ax+1=0$. We define the two sequences $X_m(a), Y_m(a) \in F[t], m \in \mathbb{Z}$ as followed:
$$X_m(a)+\alpha (a)Y_m(a)=(\alpha (a))^m=(a+\alpha (a))^{-m}$$

Lemma.

Let $F$ be an integral domain with characteristic $p=2$. Let $a \in F[t], a \notin F$. $X_m(s)$ (resp. $Y_m(a)$) is equal to the polynomial that we obtain if we substitute $t$ with $a$ at $X_m(t)$ (resp. $Y_m(t)$).
  • The degree of the polynomial $X_m(t)$ is $m-2$, if $m \geq 2$.
  • The degree of the polynomial $Y_m(t)$ is $m-1$, if $m \geq 2$.
  • $X_{-m}=X_m(a)+aY_m(a)$
  • $Y_{-m}(a)=Y_m(a)$
To prove this lemma I have done the following:

For the first two sentences about the degree I used induction on $m$. Is this correct?

As for the last two relations:

$$X_{-m}+\alpha (a)Y_{-m}=(a+\alpha (a))^m=((a+\alpha (a))^{-m})^{-1}=(X_m(a)+\alpha (a)Y_m(a))^{-1}=\frac{1}{X_m(a)+\alpha (a)Y_m(a)}$$

How could we continue?
 
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Could we maybe do it as follows:

$$X_{-m}(a)+\alpha (a)Y_{-m}(a)=(a+\alpha (a))^m=(a+\alpha (a))^{2m}(a+\alpha (a))^{-m}=[(a+\alpha (a))^2]^m(X_m(a)+\alpha (a)Y_m(a))=[a^2+(\alpha (a))^2]^m(X_m(a)+\alpha (a)Y_m(a))=[a^2+a\alpha (a)+1]^m(X_m(a)+\alpha (a)Y_m(a))$$

But how could we continue?

Or is this the wrong way?
 
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I have also an other idea:

$$X_{-m}(a)+\alpha (a)Y_{-m}(a)=(a+\alpha (a))^m=X_m(a)+(a+\alpha (a))Y_m(a)\\ =X_m(a)+aY_m(a)+\alpha (a)Y_m(a) \\ \Rightarrow X_{-m}(a)=X_m(a)+aY_m(a)\ \ , \ \ Y_{-m}(a)=Y_m(a)$$

Is this correct?
 
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Hi,

I don't have the solution, in fact, I can not even try to do it right now, but just as a comment, you can't take inverses (rise to -1), because you are working in an integral domain, not in a field.

And using induction is OK if you haven't made any mistakes. :)

I will try to solve it if I can have some rest this weekend =P
 
Fallen Angel said:
you can't take inverses (rise to -1), because you are working in an integral domain, not in a field.

At my last idea, at post #3, I don't inverse the elemnts to $-1$. Is this correct to show it in that way?
Fallen Angel said:
And using induction is OK if you haven't made any mistakes. :)

I did it as follows:

Base case: For $m=2$ we have $X_2(a)+\alpha (a)Y_2(a)=(\alpha (a))^2=a\alpha (a)+1$. So $X_2(a)=1, Y_2(a)=a$. That means that $\text{deg}(X_2(t))=0=2-2$ and $\text{deg}(Y_2(t))=1=2-1$.

Inductive hypothesis: We suppose that it holds for $m=k$, i.e., $\text{deg}(X_k(t))=k-2$ and $\text{deg}(Y_k(t))=k-1$.

Inductive step: We will show that it holds for $n=k+1$, i.e., $\text{deg}(X_{k+1}(t))=k-1$ and $\text{deg}(Y_{k+1}(t))=k$.
$$X_{k+1}(a)+\alpha (a)Y_{k+1}(a)=(a+\alpha (a))^{-(k+1)}=(a+\alpha (a))^{-k}(a+\alpha (a))^{-1}=(X_k(a)+\alpha (a)Y_k(a))(a+\alpha (a))^{-1}=(X_k(a)+\alpha (a)Y_k(a))\alpha (a)=\alpha (a)X_k(a)+\alpha (a)^2Y_k(a)=\alpha (a)X_k(a)+(a\alpha (a)+1)Y_k(a)=Y_k(a)+\alpha (a)[X_k(a)+aY_k(a)] \\ \Rightarrow X_{k+1}(a)=Y_k(a), Y_{k+1}(a)=X_k(a)+aY_k(a) \\ \Rightarrow \text{deg}(X_{k+1}(a))=\text{deg}(Y_k(a))=k-1 \ \ , \ \ \text{deg}(Y_{k+1}(a))=\max \{\text{deg}(X_k(a)), \text{deg}(aY_k(a))\}=\max \{k-2, 1+k-1\}=k$$
I am a little confused about "a" and "t".
 
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