Transfinite Induction: Understanding & Examples

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Hjensen
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Induction Transfinite
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of transfinite induction, particularly its relationship to ordinary induction on the ordinal number ω. Participants explore the equivalence of these two forms of induction and seek examples where they may differ, as well as clarifications on their definitions and implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about transfinite induction and its equivalence to ordinary induction on ω, asking for examples where they do not coincide.
  • Another participant clarifies that ω refers to the least infinite ordinal, identified with \aleph_0, and seeks concrete examples and references regarding the equivalence of the two induction forms.
  • A third participant explains that transfinite induction extends beyond ω and includes limit cases for limit ordinals, emphasizing the necessity of a limit step for ordinals larger than ω.
  • This participant also notes that while the statement 'every ordinal greater than 0 is a successor to some unique ordinal' holds for ordinals less than ω, it fails for ω itself, highlighting the importance of limit ordinals in transfinite induction.
  • Another participant draws a parallel between transfinite induction and strong induction, noting the similarities in their mechanics while emphasizing the broader scope of transfinite induction over ordinals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of examples where transfinite induction and ordinary induction diverge. The discussion remains open with various viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for concrete examples and references to proofs, indicating a potential gap in shared understanding or resources regarding the equivalence of transfinite and ordinary induction.

Hjensen
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
I'm a bit confused on the subject of transfinite induction. I've read that it is equivalent to usual induction on the ordinal number ω (presumably a proof of this can be found in a standard book on the subject - any suggestions?)

Does anyone have an example of a case in which this isn't true? In other words where these two forms of induction do not coincide? I can't seem to think of one myself.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Perhaps I should clarify a few things. By ω I mean the least infinite ordinal, which is identified with \aleph_0.

The idea I have of the two notions being different relies on intuition only. If anyone has a concrete example, you would make my day. Especially if you could include a reference to a proof of the fact that transfinite induction is equivalent to regular induction on the ordinal ω
 
Transfinite induction allows you to use induction proofs over ordinals greater than \omega, ordinary induction only allows you to prove things over \omega. The key difference is that transfinite induction involves a limit case to take into account limit ordinals i.e. if the property holds for every ordinal before the limit ordinal then it must be shown that it also holds for limit ordinal.

To see why this is important consider the statement 'every ordinal greater than 0 is a successor to some unique ordinal'. This is true for ordinals less than \omega, but is not true in general, e.g. for \omega itself. However, the successor step in an induction proof will be trivially true, so to avoid 'proving' untrue things you need a limit step too for ordinals larger than \omega.

Transfinite induction is trivially equivalent to classical induction over \omega as there are no limit ordinals smaller than \omega.
 
Last edited:
Transfinite induction is very close in spirit to that of strong induction. You assume that a statement ##P(x)## is true for every ##x<a##, and then show it's true for ##x=a##. In typical induction, you are only concerned with the whole numbers, though in transfinite induction you instead look over any other ordinal. The basic mechanics of the approach is the same.
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
9K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
8K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K