Transforming Trigonometric expression

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around transforming a trigonometric expression into a different form. Participants explore various algebraic manipulations and identities related to trigonometric functions, specifically focusing on the equivalence of two expressions involving sine, cosine, secant, and cotangent. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical explanations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an initial expression and seeks help in transforming it into a specified form, indicating a struggle with the algebra involved.
  • A later post corrects a typo in the original expression, which may affect the transformation process.
  • Some participants express doubt about the possibility of transforming the first member into the second member, suggesting that the identity may not hold.
  • Others propose that the identity can still be proven true through algebraic manipulation, although they encounter difficulties in achieving the desired form.
  • Several participants suggest simplifying the radicals using Pythagorean identities and expressing everything in terms of sine and cosine.
  • There are repeated attempts to factor expressions and apply identities, with some participants arriving at similar intermediate results but not the final desired form.
  • One participant suggests regrouping and factoring terms to achieve the desired result, indicating ongoing exploration of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the transformation is possible. Some believe it can be proven true through manipulation, while others express skepticism about the validity of the original problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on various trigonometric identities and algebraic techniques, but there are unresolved steps and assumptions in their reasoning. The discussion reflects a range of approaches and interpretations of the problem.

Drain Brain
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transform the first member to the second member

$\sqrt{\frac{\sec^{2}(\phi)-1}{\sec^{2}(\phi)(1+\cot^{2}(\phi))}}+\frac{\csc^{2}(\phi)}{\csc(\phi)}\sqrt{\frac{\csc^{2}(\phi)-1}{\csc^{2}(\phi)}} = (1+\cot(\phi))(1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi))$this is what I tried so far,

$\sin^{2}(\phi)+\cot(\phi)\cos^{2}(\phi) = (1+\cot(\phi))(1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi))$

I maybe out of idea on how to transform the left side expression to right side expression please help me. thanks!

 
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Drain Brain said:
transform the first member to the second member

$\sqrt{\frac{\sec^{2}(\phi)-1}{\sec^{2}(\phi)(1+\cot^{2}(\phi))}}+\frac{\csc^{2}(\phi)}{\csc(\phi)}\sqrt{\frac{\csc^{2}(\phi)-1}{\csc^{2}(\phi)}} = (1+\cot(\phi))(1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi))$


there's a typo in my first post it should be

$\sqrt{\frac{\sec^{2}(\phi)-1}{\sec^{2}(\phi)(1+\cot^{2}(\phi))}}+\frac{\cot^{2}(\phi)}{\csc(\phi)}\sqrt{\frac{\csc^{2}(\phi)-1}{\csc^{2}(\phi)}} = \left(1+\cot(\phi)\right)\left(1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)\right)$

Help please!
 
Last edited:
Maybe it's just me,the first member cannot be transformed into the second member. But we can still prove that the given identity is true by some using algebraic manipulation.
 
What? How come my trig book gives a problem like that. I think there's still a way around it.
 
Drain Brain said:
What? How come my trig book gives a problem like that. I think there's still a way around it.

Again, I think it's just me. Just wait for the Math Helpers to tell you how to go about it.
Regards!
 
Begin by simplifying the radicals using various Pythagorean identities.

Then simplify the resulting expressions be expressing in terms of sine and cosine only.

Then combine terms and factor the numerator using the sum of cubes formula.

Further distribution/simplification will give the desired result.
 
MarkFL said:
Begin by simplifying the radicals using various Pythagorean identities.

Then simplify the resulting expressions be expressing in terms of sine and cosine only.

Then combine terms and factor the numerator using the sum of cubes formula.

Further distribution/simplification will give the desired result.

By doing so I end up getting,

$\frac{\sin^{3}(\phi)+\cos^{3}(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}=1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cot(\phi)-\cos^{2}(\phi)$I still could not get the desired form.
 
Drain Brain said:
By doing so I end up getting,

$\frac{\sin^{3}(\phi)+\cos^{3}(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}=1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cot(\phi)-\cos^{2}(\phi)$I still could not get the desired form.

Okay, good, I too wound up with:

$$\frac{\sin^{3}(\phi)+\cos^{3}(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}$$

Now what do you get when factor the numerator as the sum of cubes?
 
MarkFL said:
Okay, good, I too wound up with:

$$\frac{\sin^{3}(\phi)+\cos^{3}(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}$$t

Now what do you get when factor the numerator as the sum of cubes?
$\frac{\sin^{3}(\phi)+\cos^{3}(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}=\frac{(\sin(\phi)+\cos(\phi))(\sin^{2}(\phi)-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cos^{2}(\phi))}{\sin(\phi)}=
1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cot(\phi)-\cos^{2}(\phi)$

Still not the form that I want.
 
  • #10
Drain Brain said:
$\frac{\sin^{3}(\phi)+\cos^{3}(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}=\frac{(\sin(\phi)+\cos(\phi))(\sin^{2}(\phi)-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cos^{2}(\phi))}{\sin(\phi)}=
1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cot(\phi)-\cos^{2}(\phi)$

Still not the form that I want.

Hi Drain Brain,

There's still more you can do. Note that

$$ \cos^2(\phi) = \cot(\phi) \tan(\phi) \cos^2(\phi) = \cot(\phi) [\tan(\phi) \cos(\phi)] \cos(\phi) = \cot(\phi) \sin(\phi) \cos(\phi).$$

Using this, you can regroup the terms and factor to get the result you want.
 
  • #11
Drain Brain said:
$\frac{\sin^{3}(\phi)+\cos^{3}(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}=\frac{(\sin(\phi)+\cos(\phi))(\sin^{2}(\phi)-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cos^{2}(\phi))}{\sin(\phi)}=
1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cot(\phi)-\cos^{2}(\phi)$

Still not the form that I want.

Okay, look at:

$$\frac{(\sin(\phi)+\cos(\phi))(\sin^{2}(\phi)-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cos^{2}(\phi))}{\sin(\phi)}$$

Write this as:

$$\frac{\sin(\phi)+\cos(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}\left(\sin^{2}(\phi)-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cos^{2}(\phi)\right)$$

Now...simplify the first factor by dividing each term in the numerator by $\sin(\phi)$, and apply a Pythagorean identity to the second factor...what do you get?
 
  • #12
MarkFL said:
Okay, look at:

$$\frac{(\sin(\phi)+\cos(\phi))(\sin^{2}(\phi)-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cos^{2}(\phi))}{\sin(\phi)}$$

Write this as:

$$\frac{\sin(\phi)+\cos(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}\left(\sin^{2}(\phi)-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cos^{2}(\phi)\right)$$

Now...simplify the first factor by dividing each term in the numerator by $\sin(\phi)$, and apply a Pythagorean identity to the second factor...what do you get?

I would get

$$\frac{\sin(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}+\frac{\cos(\phi)}{\sin(\phi)}\left(\sin^{2}(\phi)-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)+\cos^{2}(\phi)\right) = \left(1+\cot(\phi)\right) \left(1-\sin(\phi)\cos(\phi)\right)$$
 

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