Translate compound proposition p → q (implication) to p↓q question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around translating the compound proposition p → q (implication) into a form using only the logical operator ↓ (NOR). Participants explore the logical equivalences and simplifications involved in this transformation, specifically focusing on a problem from a discrete mathematics context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that p → q can be expressed as ¬p ∨ q and that p ↓ p is equivalent to ¬p.
  • The same participant proposes a combination of these equivalences to derive the expression ((p ↓ p) ↓ q) ↓ (p ↓ p) ↓ q), claiming it matches a solution manual.
  • Another participant expresses confusion, questioning how the last expression can lack dependency on p and suggesting it cannot be logically equivalent.
  • A third participant seeks clarification on the notation p ↓ p, asking about its meaning and context.
  • One participant clarifies that the notation refers to the NOR operation.
  • A later reply provides a link to a Wikipedia page on NOR logic, suggesting that the equivalence can be expressed in boolean algebra notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the logical equivalence of the proposed expressions, with some questioning the validity of the simplification and others providing additional context about the notation and logical operations involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the simplification process and the implications of using the NOR operator, as well as the specific definitions of the terms and notation used in the discussion.

VinnyW
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How to simplify ((p ↓ p) ↓ q) ↓ (p ↓ p) ↓ q) ) to F ↓ (( F ↓ q ) ↓ q ), whereas p and q are atomic propositions and F, probably, is contradiction.
I hope someone can help me or point me in the right direction.

I am reading Discrete Mathematics with its Applications by Rosen. I am trying to self learn discrete math. I am actually able to do most questions but I have a question about a solution (not the question itself.)

The question is (Section 1.3 Foundations: Logic and Proofs. Question 51)

Question: Find a compound proposition logically equivalent to p → q using only the logical operator ↓

My answer
:

I know

p → q ≡ ¬ p ∨ q

and

p ↓ p ≡ ¬ p

By combining them, I got the answer:

((p ↓ p) ↓ q) ↓ (p ↓ p) ↓ q) )

which is the same answer as the one in the solution manual; however, the manual also lists:

F ↓ (( F ↓ q ) ↓ q )

I know F is contradiction.

How can I simplify

((p ↓ p) ↓ q) ↓ (p ↓ p) ↓ q) )

to

F ↓ (( F ↓ q ) ↓ q )
 
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I'm confused, the last expression has no dependency on p at all? That can't possibly be the same thing logically.
 
VinnyW said:
Summary:: How to simplify ((p ↓ p) ↓ q) ↓ (p ↓ p) ↓ q) ) to F ↓ (( F ↓ q ) ↓ q ), whereas p and q are atomic propositions and F, probably, is contradiction.

p ↓ p ≡ ¬ p
What does the notation p ↓ p mean, particularly the down arrow? I've never seen that notation before.
 
It means nor
 
The following page should be useful in that case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOR_logic

In "boolean algebra" notation we get the following as equivalent (following the above page):
##p \rightarrow q##
##p'+q##
##(p \,\, \mathrm{nor} \,\, p)+q##

Now one can expand the last expression using the "OR gate" equivalence.
 

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