Tricky Multivariate Urn Model Problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a multivariate urn model problem related to the distribution of balls in urns with specific capacity constraints. Participants explore the joint probability mass function of the number of balls in each urn, considering the conditions under which balls can be placed in the urns. The focus is on theoretical aspects and potential mathematical formulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the problem involving m balls and m urns with varying capacities, emphasizing the constraint that an urn can only store balls if the previous urn has at least one ball.
  • Another participant questions the implications of adding an (m+1)th ball and its effect on the model.
  • A participant clarifies that the total capacity of the urns is the sum of their individual capacities, suggesting that adding an (m+1)th ball is feasible but highlights the complexity introduced by the constraints on adjacent urns.
  • There is a discussion about whether the balls are placed one at a time and how this affects the overall distribution and the potential for deriving a general formula.
  • One participant proposes that if the order of placement is unknown, the expected number of balls in a specific urn can be expressed as E[N_i / m], hinting at the possibility of establishing a recurrence relation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the implications of the placement order and the constraints of the urn model. There is no consensus on a general formula or the effects of adding additional balls, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the placement order of balls and the specific capacities of the urns, which may affect the derivation of the joint probability mass function. The complexity of the constraints on adjacent urns adds to the challenge of finding a general solution.

crbazevedo
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Hi all,

I'm working towards my Msc dissertation and I've ran into a tricky problem which I've figured it out to be modeled as the following urn problem: there are m balls and m urns U_1, ..., U_m with capacities C(U_1) = m, C(U_2) = m-1, ..., C(U_m) = 1. Knowing that each urn U_i is only allowed to store balls iff urn U_(i-1) has at least 1 ball, what is the joint probability mass function of (N_1 ... N_m) if m balls are assigned to the urns at random, where N_i is the number of balls in urn U_i?

I've tried a few different approaches to solve this problem but none of them turned out to be successful. Specifically, I've worked out a few basic cases, but I couldn't find a general formula. Any hint, suggestion or advice will be very much appreciated.
 
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May be possible (or at least to derive other properties of the distribution). But first, exactly what happens when the (m+1)th ball is added?
 
Hi @bpet, thanks for the reply.

Actually, the total capacity of all urns is simply the sum of their individual capacities, i.e., C(U_1, ..., U_m) = Sum_i=1^m C(U_i) = m + (m-1) + ... + 1 = m*(m + 1)/2. Thus, adding the (m+1)th ball would not be an issue. I'm generally interested in the specific case of m urns and m balls, though. The most tricky part is the constraint over adjacent urns, I believe. Suppose that only the first a > 1 urns turned out to be used in a random trial. Then, the input vector has the form (N_1 ... N_a N_(a+1) ... N_m), with N_1, ..., N_a > 0 and N_(a+1), ..., N_m = 0.

In the end of the day, this distribution would be useful for finding the probability that an arbitrary ball will belong to a given urn U_i.

I'm looking forward to hearing any suggestion you may have.
Thanks,
Carlos.
 
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The m balls aren't placed one at a time then?
 
@bpet Yes, they are. So, what happens is that if one urn turns out to be full just after adding the j-th ball (j < m), that urn is simply removed and all the (j+1), ..., m-th balls need to be allocated to urns with available slots. But I'm not sure whether the order of placement will afect the general formula or not, since all orders are equally likely. It's indeed very interesting to analyze this model by considering the placement order.

Carlos
 
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Ok. If the placement order of the particular ball is unknown then the probability that urn i contains it is E[N_i / m]. It might be possible to get a neat recurrence relation by conditioning N(m+1)_i on N(m)_i.
 

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