Trouble understanding coordinates for the Lagrangian

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the calculation of infinitesimal displacements for particles in the context of Lagrangian mechanics, specifically as presented in Landau's book. The focus is on the application of spherical coordinates and the mathematical formulation of displacements in this framework.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the derivation of infinitesimal displacement for particles, seeking clarification.
  • Another participant explains the use of Pythagorean theorem applied to orthogonal infinitesimal displacements, providing a formal approach using a holonomic basis.
  • A different participant describes the decomposition of infinitesimal motion into two parts, detailing the contributions from horizontal and vertical rotations.
  • Participants provide mathematical expressions for the displacements, indicating the relationships between angular displacements and their effects on the motion of the particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion shows a collaborative effort to clarify the concepts, with participants providing different perspectives on the same problem. However, no consensus is reached regarding the best approach to understand the derivation, as multiple explanations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical formulations and coordinate systems, but there may be assumptions about the familiarity with spherical coordinates and the context of Lagrangian mechanics that are not explicitly stated.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals studying Lagrangian mechanics, particularly those struggling with the application of spherical coordinates and the concept of infinitesimal displacements in this context.

p1ndol
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Hello, I'm having some trouble understanding this solution provided in Landau's book on mechanics. I'd like to understand how they arrived at the infinitesimal displacement for the particles m1. I appreciate any kind of help regarding this problem, thank you!
 

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It's nothing more than Pythagoras applied to orthogonal infinitesimal displacements ##ad\theta## and ##a\sin{\theta} d\phi##, however if you want a (very slightly) more formal approach in terms of the holonomic basis...

if ##\phi## is held constant then ##\mathbf{E}_{\theta} = \dfrac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial \theta} = a \hat{\boldsymbol{e}}_{\theta}## whilst if ##\theta## is held constant then ##\mathbf{E}_{\phi} = \dfrac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial \phi} = a\sin{\theta} \hat{\boldsymbol{e}}_{\phi}##. Since ##\mathbf{E}_{\theta}## and ##\mathbf{E}_{\phi}## are orthogonal you have $$dl^2 = \displaystyle{\sum_i \sum_j }dx^i \mathbf{E}_i \cdot dx^j \mathbf{E}_j= {E_{\theta}}^2 d\theta^2 + {E_{\phi}}^2 d\phi^2 = a^2 d\theta^2 + a^2 \sin^2{\theta} d\phi^2$$
 
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Thank you very much!
 
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I think he did it in spherical coordinates. The infinitesimal motion of m1 can be disassembled into two parts; this disassembly is correct since the displacements in the two directions are small (meaning they are kinda linear) and orthogonal:

Displacement^2 caused by horizontal rotation ##\Omega##:
$$dl^2_{horizontal}=R^2(\Omega\mathrm{dt})^2=a^2\sin^2 \theta(\Omega\mathrm{dt})^2$$

Displacement^2 caused by the rotation of m1 about A in the plane of book:
$$v=r\omega\implies dl^2_{vertical}=(a\mathrm d{\theta})^2$$

Hope this helps.
 
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Thanks, you couldn't have been clearer!
 

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