Troubleshooting 30kV Power Supply: Possible Problems and Solutions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around troubleshooting a 30 kV power supply that is not producing the expected discharge between electrodes. Participants explore potential issues related to the oscilloscope's measurement capabilities, the configuration of the power supply, and the discharge setup itself. The conversation includes technical details about the equipment used and the conditions under which the discharge is expected to occur.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the oscilloscope's input impedance may overload the 30 kV supply, suggesting the use of a high voltage probe.
  • Another participant questions whether a discharge occurs without the oscilloscope or probe, indicating a need to test this condition.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential for the probe to overload the power supply, with some participants suggesting that either the probe, the power supply, or the discharge tube could be faulty.
  • Participants propose a systematic approach to troubleshooting, including testing components independently and checking calibration.
  • One participant mentions a 1 k ohm resistor in the circuit, speculating on its role in managing leakage currents and preventing insulation breakdown.
  • There is a discussion about the dimensions of the discharge tube, with some participants asserting that it is unlikely to be the source of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the source of the problem, with no consensus reached on whether the issue lies with the power supply, the probe, or the discharge tube. The discussion remains unresolved as participants explore different hypotheses and troubleshooting steps.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for a data sheet for the power supply and probe, indicating that specific technical details may be necessary for further analysis. There is also uncertainty about the circuit schematic and how components are interconnected.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals working with high voltage power supplies, oscilloscope measurements, and discharge experiments, particularly in experimental physics or engineering contexts.

naviakam
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TL;DR
having problem to get discharge in air
I am using a power supply (30 kV, 20 kHz) to discharge in air between two electrodes separated by an insulator. For 30 kV applied voltage, oscilloscope shows only 6 kV, and no discharge occurs. What are possible problems and solutions?
 
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The input impedance of an oscilloscope is usually only 1 Megohm, or 10 Megohm on the 10x probe range. Maybe the 30 kV supply is overloaded by the probe.

There are special high voltage probes available for oscilloscopes. How are you using an oscilloscope to view what might be 30 kV ?
 
Baluncore said:
The input impedance of an oscilloscope is usually only 1Meg, or 10 Meg on the 10x probe range. Maybe the 30 kV supply is overloaded by the probe.

There are special high voltage probes available for oscilloscopes. How are you using an oscilloscope to view what might be 30 kV ?
Using a high voltage probe.
 
naviakam said:
Using a high voltage probe.
Does a discharge occur when you do not use the oscilloscope or probe?
 
Baluncore said:
The input impedance of an oscilloscope is usually only 1 Megohm, or 10 Megohm on the 10x probe range. Maybe the 30 kV supply is overloaded by the probe.

There are special high voltage probes available for oscilloscopes. How are you using an oscilloscope to view what might be 30 kV ?
The problem is I do not get any discharge, while such voltage must breakdown the gas!
I use a high voltage probe to see the voltage on the oscilloscope. The ampere meter on the power supply does not show anything. The only thing I can see is the manually adjusted (30 kV) voltage on the power supply and the voltage (6 kV) shown on the oscilloscope.
 
Baluncore said:
Does a discharge occur when you do not use the oscilloscope or probe?
did not check that really!
 
Baluncore said:
Does a discharge occur when you do not use the oscilloscope or probe?
Then what this shows if I disconnect the probe and get discharge? and if I disconnect probe and do not get discharge, what this shows?
 
naviakam said:
Then what this shows if I disconnect the probe and get discharge? and if I disconnect probe and do not get discharge, what this shows?
It shows if the probe is overloading the EHT supply.
I need a data sheet.
What is the make and model of the EHT power supply?
What is the make and model of the oscilloscope EHT probe?
 
Baluncore said:
It shows if the probe is overloading the EHT supply.
I need a data sheet.
What is the make and model of the EHT power supply?
What is the make and model of the oscilloscope EHT probe?
power supply: https://www.amazing1.com/hv-hf-power-supplies.html#HVHF

oscilloscope: Tektronix 4 channel.

then what shall I do to resolve overloading?
 
  • #10
naviakam said:
then what shall I do to resolve overloading?
First identify the parts that do work.
Use “divide and conquer” to find the problem.
Reduce the complexity back to the point where all the parts work separately. Then start assembling it, one step at the time.
For example; Eliminate the spark gap and wires, look at the EHT supply output with the probe and oscilloscope only. If that does not work, test them independently. Check the calibration of the oscilloscope with a known test signal.

Take care, 30 kV may generate X-rays when the discharge takes place.
 
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  • #11
There is a one k ohm resistor between the power supply ground wire and the ground electrode of device. high voltage probe connected to oscilloscope through 50 ohm connector.
the device (plasma jet) made up of: SS 3 mm diameter rod connected to high voltage inserted inside a quartz tube with 4 mm inner and 8 mm outer diameters. Cu tape around quartz at the bottom is the ground. we must have a discharge within the tube between anode tip and the Cu. but it's strange that with such high voltage we can not get any discharge!
If probe overload the power supply, probe has problem? If still didn't discharge, power supply has problem?
 
Last edited:
  • #12
naviakam said:
If probe overload the power supply, probe has problem? If still didn't discharge, power supply has problem?
That is as yet indeterminate. It may be the EHT supply that is faulty, the probe, or the discharge tube. Do not overthink the analysis.
1. You can test the CRO with against it's reference, and other sources.
2. You can test the probe with the working CRO on AC voltage. Does the probe have an AC/DC switch?
3. You can then test the EHT supply with all previously tested items.
4. Lastly you can test the discharge tube.
At any point you may need to back-track, or to check cables and connections.

The 1k resistor from ground to "ground electrode of device" is probably there to conduct leakage currents, to prevent voltages floating and breaking down the insulation. I do not have the schematic diagram of your circuit, or know which particular "device" you might be referring to.
You can post a link, or attach a picture to a post.
 
  • #13
Baluncore said:
That is as yet indeterminate. It may be the EHT supply that is faulty, the probe, or the discharge tube. Do not overthink the analysis.
1. You can test the CRO with against it's reference, and other sources.
2. You can test the probe with the working CRO on AC voltage. Does the probe have an AC/DC switch?
3. You can then test the EHT supply with all previously tested items.
4. Lastly you can test the discharge tube.
At any point you may need to back-track, or to check cables and connections.

The 1k resistor from ground to "ground electrode of device" is probably there to conduct leakage currents, to prevent voltages floating and breaking down the insulation. I do not have the schematic diagram of your circuit, or know which particular "device" you might be referring to.
You can post a link, or attach a picture to a post.
 

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  • #14
The dimensions of your discharge tube are almost certainly not the problem. There is something more obvious missing. Like, how the generator current is limited.

How is the ground of the generator connected to the discharge tube?
Where in the circuit is the 1k ?
 
  • #15
Baluncore said:
The dimensions of your discharge tube are almost certainly not the problem. There is something more obvious missing. Like, how the generator current is limited.

How is the ground of the generator connected to the discharge tube?
Where in the circuit is the 1k ?
1640604112232.jpeg
 
  • #16
Thread closed temporarily for Moderation...
 

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